Cliff Lee could take us to the WS

[weams]

Given that he signed the contract in the winter prior to 2011, I would think the Orioles would have been one of the first five organizations on his list. I'd say there's a very very good chance the Orioles were one of the teams picked.

He gets to pick a different list each season.

[Birdfan21]

What type of value does the competitive balance pick have? I would think the 37th overall pick in the draft has some decent value. Problem is they'd have to make a trade before the end of this week...

[andrewrickli]

Cliff Lee would take us a long way, seeing as he is an ace, something this team has lacked for a long time. But at what cost? 25 million per season? Not for me.

His strikeout rate has declined, his ground ball rate, and his velocity are all down this year.

[brianod]

Not only no, but HELL no. Anyone remember when Seattle thought Bedard would get them to the series? How did that work out? Anyone remember when the O's thought Glen Davis was the missing piece? Cliff Lee is fools gold. Too expensive and his salary would be totally disruptive to the future of this franchise. The goal isn't to win this year, the goal is to become a winning franchise, much like the Ravens.

[crawjo]

Well, what else would a window to extend mean? If you trade for a guy, he's already yours to negotiate with, so why ask for a window unless a deal was contingent on the extension.

Like you said, moot point. I'd still consider Bundy for 1.5 years of Shields. Cost control is good. But if Bundy is 6 years of Hayden Penn, its not worth it. Hopefully Bundy lives up to the hype.

Hayden Penn never had as much hype as Bundy. I think it would be borderline criminal to trade Bundy for Shields.

[El Gordo]

Well our best shots to develop a TOR in the time we have this core together are Bundy and Gausman. Our current pitching development doesn't have the best track record, but even so, neither of those two is likely to be performing as a TOR in the next two years. IMO this is a WS team with the addition of a TOR. If we were to offer Tillman plus a pitching prospect(Hader, Wright, etc,) for Lee and say 20M in return, I think it would be a good deal. Lee costs 25 M for 2014 and 2015. He has a 12.5 M buy out for 2016. So we would be paying essentially 15 M per for '14 and '15, plus the 12.5 M buy out. Unless he puts up 400 IP in 14-15 in which case he costs an extra 15M, but would that be such a bad thing if we got to a couple of WS?

[Bradysburns]

Well our best shots to develop a TOR in the time we have this core together are Bundy and Gausman. Our current pitching development doesn't have the best track record, but even so, neither of those two is likely to be performing as a TOR in the next two years. IMO this is a WS team with the addition of a TOR. If we were to offer Tillman plus a pitching prospect(Hader, Wright, etc,) for Lee and say 20M in return, I think it would be a good deal. Lee costs 25 M for 2014 and 2015. He has a 12.5 M buy out for 2016. So we would be paying essentially 15 M per for '14 and '15, plus the 12.5 M buy out. Unless he puts up 400 IP in 14-15 in which case he costs an extra 15M, but would that be such a bad thing if we got to a couple of WS?

If you could get that deal, and offer up the package you describe, I would be for it. Losing Tillman would be very painful, considering that he's finally good after so many years of unfulfilled promise. But... Lee is a true ace. Putting him on the mound for game 1 and game 5 of any series would be a good thing. You could still wind up with a rotation of Lee, Hammel, Chen, Gonzales/Gausman/Bundy in 2014. And 2015. And 2016. If Lee holds together (which could happen as he becomes more crafty)... that could be a solid rotation for the next 2-3 years. By then, Gausman and Bundy would hopefully be ready to move toward the TOR... and the next wave of prospects would be coming up.

However, I don't think they'd go for that package - they might prefer an MLB-ready prospect with a higher perceived ceiling than Tillman.

[El Gordo]

If you could get that deal, and offer up the package you describe, I would be for it. Losing Tillman would be very painful, considering that he's finally good after so many years of unfulfilled promise. But... Lee is a true ace. Putting him on the mound for game 1 and game 5 of any series would be a good thing. You could still wind up with a rotation of Lee, Hammel, Chen, Gonzales/Gausman/Bundy in 2014. And 2015. And 2016. If Lee holds together (which could happen as he becomes more crafty)... that could be a solid rotation for the next 2-3 years. By then, Gausman and Bundy would hopefully be ready to move toward the TOR... and the next wave of prospects would be coming up.

However, I don't think they'd go for that package - they might prefer an MLB-ready prospect with a higher perceived ceiling than Tillman.

Who has that guy? And the Yankees could take on all his contract, but whet do they have to give in return? If Philly decides to move Lee it would be to get players back that could get them younger and keep them in contention at least as much as dumping salary.

[Bradysburns]

Who has that guy? And the Yankees could take on all his contract, but whet do they have to give in return? If Philly decides to move Lee it would be to get players back that could get them younger and keep them in contention at least as much as dumping salary.

That's a good question. There are a few guys out there - but not necessarily on the big-money teams. For some reason, I just have a hard time believing that Tillman and Wright would land you Cliff Lee. I'm not saying your suggestion is wrong - I just can't believe it. I mean, that would not be a huge haul for an ace, pedigreed pitcher having a great year, with a not-totally-ridiculous contract, guaranteed only for the next two seasons. Again, if DD's listening, I say pull the trigger. And do have them send us that $20 mill up front...

[Bradysburns]

He gets to pick a different list each season.

Dang - that's some serious hand in a negotiation. "I'll let you know where I'd be willing to go."

I would agree with other poster(s): Philly is a quick Amtrack ride from Camden. Would not be a huge deal for Clifford to commute, or move.

[El Gordo]

That's a good question. There are a few guys out there - but not necessarily on the big-money teams. For some reason, I just have a hard time believing that Tillman and Wright would land you Cliff Lee. I'm not saying your suggestion is wrong - I just can't believe it. I mean, that would not be a huge haul for an ace, pedigreed pitcher having a great year, with a not-totally-ridiculous contract, guaranteed only for the next two seasons. Again, if DD's listening, I say pull the trigger. And do have them send us that $20 mill up front...

Bottom line: If one of our pitchers doesn't step up and start pitching like a TOR, we may be able to make the playoffs this yea,r but we aren't going very deep into them. What is the likely hood of that happening? Not so much. We need to acquire that guy, be it Peavy, Lee, or someone else, or wait until next year again.

[Il BuonO]

I thought I'd revisit this with Mr. Lee going tonight and shutting out the Padres 2-0.

I recently started a Bedard thread but found it hilarious that someone actually compared him to Lee in the regard that Lee wouldn't get us to the series. Bedard didn't help get the Mariners there but I'd be willing to take that bet with

Lee

Tillman

Chen

Gonzalez

Hammel

I don't feel like waiting til next year.

[Il BuonO]

The Padres had runners at the corners with no outs in the 7th and Lee pitched his way out of it.

Beautiful.

[DrungoHazewood]

The Padres had runners at the corners with no outs in the 7th and Lee pitched his way out of it.

Beautiful.

Prior to that Lee's opponents were 1-for-2 with runners on 1st and 3rd with no one out, and from the 7th inning on Lee's ERA was 5.40.

[Miamiorioles]

It is a mute point. Angelo's wants big league benefits(playoffs) with minor league mindset. No way he gets anyone but a journeyman. He won't spend the $.