MacPhail's negotiations - confusing results

[Rockbird]

No comment.....

It is weird going back to how negotiations would peter with the Angels/O's....

[BaltimoreTerp]

The point is that every situation is different.

If a random team called up MacPhail this morning and made an offer that blew away anything the Mariners offered for Bedard, or the Cubs offered for Roberts, and MacPhail had that trade done tonight, does that mean his is stupid for fiddling away two months on those other teams? Does it mean he was a genius in waiting that long until a team got desperate?

Every situation is different. And when we know next to nothing about what is going on behind the scenes, that makes it harder to comment on the negotiations with any certainty.

[Sports Guy]

Had the Dodgers failed to sign Kuroda, perhaps things would look different for us as well. I have to say, it baffles me how (IMO) the hangout (Several Posters) keeps lowering the bar for what they'll take for Bedard. Apparently MacPhail hasn't, which is why some posters are frustrated nothing has gotten done.

Who has lowered the bar for what they would except for Bedard?

[Sports Guy]

Hm-m-m......Their roster spots are only valuable IF you have someone better/cheaper/younger to fill them. And filling those spots depends largely on who we get in return on trades, or what FA's we might sign. Do you advocate dumping them for table scraps before we know we can get a player to replace them? I have to think MacPhail realizes this.

Moore > Mora

Terrero > payton

I am sure we can find someone, like a Jon Knott, who could be similar to Millar.

This isn't difficult.

[Sports Guy]

The point is that every situation is different.

If a random team called up MacPhail this morning and made an offer that blew away anything the Mariners offered for Bedard, or the Cubs offered for Roberts, and MacPhail had that trade done tonight, does that mean his is stupid for fiddling away two months on those other teams? Does it mean he was a genius in waiting that long until a team got desperate?

Every situation is different. And when we know next to nothing about what is going on behind the scenes, that makes it harder to comment on the negotiations with any certainty.

I would be willing to bet you said something similar to this last year.(and every other year before that since you have been on OH)

[Fan4Life]

Who has lowered the bar for what they would except for Bedard?

Well, we went from

One of

Kemp, Kershaw, Ethier

One of

Hu, LaRoche,

One of

Meloan or equal type prospect

To:

Jones, Morrow, Clement or Sherrill or Tirunfil or others

Now to a package that could be acceptable without Jones that you stated perviously in this thread... to me, that's lowering the bar, a lot from what we once clammored for...

[Fairfax Bird]

And again, he is an idiot.

Hell, Hughes by himself may be worth dealing Santana for.

But to also get a top prospect and Melky with that? That is a great offer.

And again, he doesn't fit your argument, so he is an idiot. You don't know the offers. Unless you are on the phone with Smith and Cashman, you don't know the offer.

[Sports Guy]

Well, we went from

One of

Kemp, Kershaw, Ethier

One of

Hu, LaRoche,

One of

Meloan or equal type prospect

To:

Jones, Morrow, Clement or Sherrill or Tirunfil or others

Now to a package that could be acceptable without Jones that you stated perviously in this thread... to me, that's lowering the bar, a lot from what we once clammored for...

I couldn't disagree with this anymore than I do but its not worth rehashing the same stuff with you.

[Sports Guy]

Beane must use voodoo.

I wasn't particularly excited about the return the Marlins got if you want me to be honest. I wouldn't be happy if I was a Marlins fan. Are you saying the Marlins should be the model we strive to emulate?

Miller, Maybin and another prospect for MCab is a pretty fair deal.

The other 3 for Willis is fine because Willis isn't that good.

Plus, the salary saved.

And I would rather have had the Marlins last 10 years than the Orioles last 10 years.

[Sports Guy]

You are assuming an awful to write that Moore is greater than Mora. I may be reminding you of that one later.

Go ahead....Moore + 18 million(or less depending on how much you may have to eat of his contract) + whatever you get for Mora is much much much more valuable than Mora.

I'm just going to lol at the Knott/Millar comment. Knott may produce an 800 OPS in the big leagues for the better part of a decade, but I'm not sure I'd say I'm "sure of it".

A guy like Knott...You know, a journeman cornerman who deserves a shot...in other words, a guy like Luke Scott.

Plus, there is no guarantee that Millar, at his age, can duplicate what he did last year.

I have no doubt you can find a 775-800 OPS 1b/DH guy somewhere.

Hell, pick up Chris Shelton for free.

[Sports Guy]

If Miller, Maybin, and a B-/C+ prospect are enough for MCab, then I'm really wondering why you think the Tejada pull was so bad. Tejada can't hold MCab's jock and we got back almost that much value for him.

We got nothing like Millar and Maybin for Miggy.

[olehippi]

Moore > Mora

Terrero > payton

I am sure we can find someone, like a Jon Knott, who could be similar to Millar.

This isn't difficult.

I was going to say you're making some huge assumptions, but VaTech beat me to it. And, I thought the purpose of rebuilding was not only to get younger, but also better. Moore has done nothing to prove he is/will be better than Mora, and I'd say Terrero/Payton is a toss-up, at best.

[Hank Scorpio]

Yes, we did. You just overvalue youth IMO.

Scott is under our control for five more years. There is a very good chance that he will produce excellent numbers because he is already doing it in the majors. Maybin had an 879 OPS in high A ball at 20 and an 843 at low A ball at 19. He may be a stud or he may never sniff the numbers put up by Scott. He has a much, much higher risk factor than Scott. Scott put up numbers better than Maybin's minor league numbers the last two years in the pros.

Miller also has major question marks. His K totals in the minors aren't exciting. His first exposure to the majors last year wasn't good at all. It is entirely possible that Albers or Patton could put up the numbers that Miller will put up. I like our odds of them outperforming Miller cumulatively.

Just because you think Maybin and Miller will be studs doesn't mean it will happen. The rest of the trade wasn't anything at all to get excited about.

This post is why you need to be comfortable with your scouting department, IMO.

[RShack]

Beane sure made it look easy.

Yesterday, some A's FO guy was on the radio with Kennedy-and-Dibble. They were asking him about the Swisher trade. He said that the A's had no thoughts of any kind about trading him, they weren't even thinking about it. But over the holidays, they were sitting there, minding their own business, and one of them gets a text-message from somebody in the CWS FO asking about Swisher. The A's attitude was you can have anybody you want if you're willing to pay through the nose. Which, according to the A's guy, is what CWS did: they let them go browsing through the farm system and pick whatever they wanted. According to him, the reason the CWS did that had a whole lot to do with Swisher's contract. But the A's signed him to it because they wanted to keep him, not trade him.

The point is that the only reason the A's traded him is because the CWS agreed to do what AM is demanding that other teams do for Bedard. The diff isn't what's being asked of the team who wants to acquire a guy. The diff is whether that team is willing to pay the price of "browse around and take who you want", that's the difference.

ps: The A's guy said it all happened right at New Year's, with everybody having to duck out of their big family dinner and annoying their spouse to mess with their blackberries. He said it's amazing how much stuff gets done these days with blackberries.

[Sports Guy]

Yes, we did. You just overvalue youth IMO.

Scott is under our control for five more years. There is a very good chance that he will produce excellent numbers because he is already doing it in the majors. Maybin had an 879 OPS in high A ball at 20 and an 843 at low A ball at 19. He may be a stud or he may never sniff the numbers put up by Scott. He has a much, much higher risk factor than Scott. Scott put up numbers better than Maybin's minor league numbers the last two years in the pros.

Miller also has major question marks. His K totals in the minors aren't exciting. His first exposure to the majors last year wasn't good at all. It is entirely possible that Albers or Patton could put up the numbers that Miller will put up. I like our odds of them outperforming Miller cumulatively.

Just because you think Maybin and Miller will be studs doesn't mean it will happen. The rest of the trade wasn't anything at all to get excited about.

THere is absolutely no question Miller and Maybin have much more upside than anyone we got in trade.

You are being a homer here in the worst way.

I am not saying they are guaranteed for success but Maybin was a top 10 prospect in the sport and Miller was one of the top 5-10 pitching prospects in the game.

I guarantee if the 2 trades were reversed, you would be saying the exact opposite.