"We are not the New York Yankees. We are not New York..." (Winter Meetings Thread)

[eddie83]

Right, and their payroll isn't that much larger than ours. They were at $102 million last year, 14th in baseball. We were at $90 million, 15th in baseball.

People on this board talk as if the Orioles have the lowest payroll in baseball. We're average. Maybe we could push it higher, into the $110 million range or so. I don't know. I don't know what the profits are from MASN and don't even pretend to know the Orioles budget.

Are we keeping pace now? That is all I ask.

[spiritof66]

Right, and their payroll isn't that much larger than ours. They were at $102 million last year, 14th in baseball. We were at $90 million, 15th in baseball.

People on this board talk as if the Orioles have the lowest payroll in baseball. We're average. Maybe we could push it higher, into the $110 million range or so. I don't know. I don't know what the profits are from MASN and don't even pretend to know the Orioles budget.

The figures I've seen for Opening Day 2013 (from USA today, http://www.usatoday.com/sports/mlb/salaries/2013/all/team/all) have the Cardinals 11th at $115.2 million and the O's 15th at $91.1 million. What's more important (in my opinion), the Cards had the highest payroll in the NL Central, while the O's were fourth in the AL East, $26.5 million behind the Jays.

[weams]

[mcgraw238]

Our market and theirs is almost the same. If St. Louis had 14 losing years straight their fan base would shrink also. I know they have more overall fans in the Midwest but they also don't have their own TV network. According to Forbes their income advantage over us is all based on ticket sales. They aren't a big market either

Why is ticket sales a disqualifier here. I've been busting on the O's plenty of late but fact is a club like St. Louis draws in excess of 3 million fans annually which creates a substantial revenue advantage. I believe Frobby gave numbers for 2012 as the Cardinals have approximately $32 million in addition revenue from gate receipts over the O's. That's substantial. I agree with the 14 year issue but that still doesn't change the bottom line that they have substantial more in gate receipts to invest in the on field product.

[eddie83]

Why is ticket sales a disqualifier here. I've been busting on the O's plenty of late but fact is a club like St. Louis draws in excess of 3 million fans annually which creates a substantial revenue advantage. I believe Frobby gave numbers for 2012 as the Cardinals have approximately $32 million in addition revenue from gate receipts over the O's. That's substantial. I agree with the 14 year issue but that still doesn't change the bottom line that they have substantial more in gate receipts to invest in the on field product.

We have MASN, the more we win the more our gate will go up also.

[mcgraw238]

We have MASN, the more we win the more our gate will go up also.

Yes, saying MASN seems to be the neutralizer of all things revenue related, too bad it is not that easy. I'm sure the Cards are doing quite well with whatever arrangement they have for their rights fees. In fact, MASN seems mismanaged on the subscriber side relative to its peers and the additional funds/profits seems to be kept outside of the O's. The market size for the O's and Cards is similar but the Cards fan base in general has a greater intensity for its club. Hopefully, we keep winning so that attendance keeps climbing, though I'm pretty pessimistic at the moment after listening to our GM.

[eddie83]

Yes, saying MASN seems to be the neutralizer of all things revenue related, too bad it is not that easy. I'm sure the Cards are doing quite well with whatever arrangement they have for their rights fees. In fact, MASN seems mismanaged on the subscriber side relative to its peers and the additional funds/profits seems to be kept outside of the O's. The market size for the O's and Cards is similar but the Cards fan base in general has a greater intensity for its club. Hopefully, we keep winning so that attendance keeps climbing, though I'm pretty pessimistic at the moment after listening to our GM.

According to Bloomberg the Orioles media rights are higher, I am sure MASN plays a role. The Cards advantage is other places, like gate and sponsorship which all make sense with their consistent winning ways. With MASN the Orioles are the more valued franchise. MASN is doing well, even if it could be better.

http://www.bloomberg.com/infographics/2013-10-23/mlb-team-values.html

[CA-ORIOLE]

Yes, saying MASN seems to be the neutralizer of all things revenue related, too bad it is not that easy. I'm sure the Cards are doing quite well with whatever arrangement they have for their rights fees. In fact, MASN seems mismanaged on the subscriber side relative to its peers and the additional funds/profits seems to be kept outside of the O's. The market size for the O's and Cards is similar but the Cards fan base in general has a greater intensity for its club. Hopefully, we keep winning so that attendance keeps climbing, though I'm pretty pessimistic at the moment after listening to our GM.

I guess it wouldn't be surprising that MASN is badly mismanaged considering the guy in charge and how he's mismanaged this baseball team. Then again, its hard to know what ground truth is. The thing that really pissed me off (from the Forbes article) was that MASN was largely funded with Orioles related revenue rather than substantial investor capital (which is usually the case). So really, the true "investors" in MASN were actually us.

[eddie83]

I guess it wouldn't be surprising that MASN is badly mismanaged considering the guy in charge and how he's mismanaged this baseball team. Then again, its hard to know what ground truth is. The thing that really pissed me off (from the Forbes article) was that MASN was largely funded with Orioles related revenue rather than substantial investor capital (which is usually the case). So really, the true "investors" in MASN were actually us.

I think the Nats or MLB at the time put 75M in to buy in their 10% that grows. That money helped to fund things.

[weams]

[weams]

Live Coverage on MLB newtwork. It's on now.

[weams]

Our pick in the June Rule 4 draft is now #16. If a FA with compensation attached is signed that pick will disappear and the team that made that FA a QO will receive a sandwich pick after the first round.

[weams]

[weams]

http://bwm.milb.net/images/13/2013_Freitas_Speakers.pdf

[weams]