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If we go for internal options, I like O'Day for closer


Frobby

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But none of his 21 minor league appearances were starts, and he finished a game 17 times.

That doesn't mean he wasn't drafted with the idea of making him a starter.

Obviously I remembered hearing about it or I would not have gone fishing for a sun piece to corroborate what I remembered.

If the plan changed after he was signed is irrelevant.

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But none of his 21 minor league appearances were starts, and he finished a game 17 times.

Baltimore was attempting to build up his arm before having him start (since the system doesn't have a piggyback plan). That's why he was throwing multiple innings every time out there.

He was injured before he was ready to even convert to starting.

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That doesn't mean he wasn't drafted with the idea of making him a starter.

Obviously I remembered hearing about it or I would not have gone fishing for a sun piece to collaborate what I remembered.

If the plan changed after he was signed is irrelevant.

Plan didn't change. He is misinterpreting the stat page.

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We aren't doing a closer by committee. Buck has brought in JJ for a one pitch save the moment a situation became a save opportunity. He likes the stat. Personally, I like O'Day and Hunter better in situations where they can get matchups a bit more. If we aren't going to give him a chance to start (which I think we should), I have a good feeling Steven Johnson could handle the role.

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The problem I have with closing by matchup is that it may mean using multiple pitchers in the 9th inning. I think that could put a lot of strain on the pen because you'd be saving multiple pitchers for the 9th (rather then just one guy). Ideally having 1 pitcher who is able to get both LH and RH batters out is the best way to go, IMO.

I don't agree with your conclusion here. If anything, using guys in specific match up situations should allow them to not be over used. One out per night isn't going to put any undue strain on anyone.

Well, I've never been reluctant to post information I've found that contradicts or at least dampens a statement that I made earlier in a thread. It's all a quest for truth. However, lots of teams have gone closer by committee for a part of a season -- just Google "closer by committee" and you'll see dozens of examples. Even the article I posted cited the Tigers doing this last year. But nobody sticks with it long, and I'd suggest there's a reason for that -- it hasn't worked out very well.

I'm by no means suggesting that you have to slavishly follow the save rule, but I think having a guy who usually closes games is probably the best approach.

There may have been teams that have tried it but it wasn't by choice. I would say that in most of these instances these teams were searching for a closer and were stuck in between finding their closer. This was most certainly the case for the Tigers last year.

The problem is only desperate teams try it.

It probably is better to have one guy have the majority of chances. The problem is that causes undesirable increases in payroll as well as an unreasonable dependence on a single player.

I don't have much of an issue with one guy getting 80% of the chances. I have a problem with pitching a tired pitcher because it is a save opportunity and pulling pitchers that are pitching well because it suddenly became a save opportunity.

As I stated in an earlier post, I'm not even sure that a true committee would be the way to go but I'm certain that it hasn't been truly attempted in way that was designed to use all your pieces in the BP to your advantage even if that meant using one guy more than others to finish games. I'm sure that would eventually happen over time as you would see high leverage situations given attention by the most capable, but that wouldn't necessarily call for the 9th inning all the time. Another problem I've had with the way the closer is used. If you have a high leverage situation in the 7th inning why not use your best guy then? Why am I locked into using him in the 9th inning only?

Finally, I'm less interested in the committee idea though than I am in the concept of the manager staying open to using his BP completely in any situation. For instance, we're playing the RSox and have a one run less in the 9th, we still have Jim Johnson and he comes in to close and gets the first two outs. Ortiz is up next. Why not bring in Matusz in that situation? There is no reason not to do it. Johnson could pitch the next night and so could Matusz. The efficacy of the BP is preserved.

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Here's a pretty good article on the topic: http://m.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/rob-bradford/2013/04/25/ten-years-later-revisiting-merits-closer-comm

According to the article, the 2003 Red Sox were the last team that openly said they were going closer-by-committee at the start of a season.

Awesome ty good read

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

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Show me what forward-thinking manager believes otherwise. Even guys like Joe Maddon, who will try just about anything, have concluded that relievers do better when they know their roles.

I don't know that there could be any kind of research done on this subject. If it could be done, I highly doubt relievers faired any worse when they did not know " their roles ". Kind of like the pre save rule and saves. About the same number of games were blown in the 9th inning before and after. I personally think it is laziness and easier for managers to have closers. It makes their job much easier. Defined roles does the same thing. It makes it automatic, where less second guessing is involved. The automatic lefty-lefty or righty- righty matchups, drive me nuts. Blowing 4-5 pitchers to get through 2 innings is shear madness.

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I agree with the OP, as well. The more I think about it, there is no way they can rationally make Hunter the closer. He can't get lefties out. That would be easy picking in the late innings - especially against teams stacked with left handers, including bench players. Maybe Buck has a divining rod or something that tells him when someone is ready to transcend their prior performance levels... so I guess you never know.

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