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Addressing three O's myths


wildcard

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Three things that bug me when I hear or read them.

1) Britton as this years Tillman.

I have read this several times. Roch just referenced to again in his blog. They reference to Britton being in the same position as Tillman last spring. Supposedly, both Tillman last year and Britton this year had/have to pitch well to make the team in ST or be waived.

While this is partly true, it is misleading and drives me nuts when I hear it. Last spring Tillman was coming off a great 2nd half of 2012 where he went 9-3 with a 2.93 ERA in 15 starts. He was not in danger of being waived by the team. Britton has not pitched well in a couple of years and is in danger of being waived with a bad spring. I hate the comparison.

2) Duquette's comment about Buck found a closer before he can do it again.

This comment is made to lessen the need for a experienced closer. It ignores where the team was in 2012 and where it is now as now as a contender. It also ignores that Jim Johnson was a experienced and effective setup man that got both righties and lefties out.

Again something that drives me nuts. When Jim Johnson was given the closer role to replace Kevin Gregg to begin the 2012 season the team was coming off a 69 win 2011. They where 28 games behind the division winners in 2011. Chris Davis was not Chris Davis yet. Manny was not Manny. In fact the team was not a contender at the beginning for 2012. It was a hopeful. And under those conditions giving the closer job to a setup guy that was reliable and had less than a 3.00 ERA versus both lefties and righties was a good move.

However now, that O's have had two winning seasons. With the right moves should be contenders. The team positioning is way different from ST 2012.

No one on the O's team is positioned the way Johnson way to close. Hunter has not proven he can get lefties out. Matusz can't get righties out. DD says O'Day is not even being considered to be the closer. Most contending team go into the season with an experienced closer. Not having one is the move of a 2nd division team. DD's comment drives me nuts.

3) Seeing Miguel Gonzalez being push down or minimized as a starter.

This is not so much a myth as a perception. I see Gonzalez being slighted as a starter pretty often. Fact is Miguel is 20-12, 3.65 ERA and a 1.217 WHIP over that last season and a half as a starter. That is a quality starter. Better numbers than Chen.

Some want to talk about his need for rest or him not going deep enough in games. These are both things that Buck has dealt with effectively and the results have been that Gonzalez has been the 2nd best starter for the O's for the last season and a half. Drives me nuts to see him not get the respect due him.

Just some things I want to get off my chest. Thanks for reading.

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Three things that bug me when I hear or read them.

1) Britton as this years Tillman.

I have read this several times. Roch just referenced to again in his blog. They reference to Britton being in the same position as Tillman last spring. Supposedly, both Tillman last year and Britton this year had/have to pitch well to make the team in ST or be waived.

While this is partly true, it is misleading and drives me nuts when I hear it. Last spring Tillman was coming off a great 2nd half of 2012 where he went 9-3 with a 2.93 ERA in 15 starts. He was not in danger of being waived by the team. Britton has not pitched well in a couple of years and is in danger of being waived with a bad spring. I hate the comparison.

2) Duquette's comment about Buck found a closer before he can do it again.

This comment is made to lessen the need for a experienced closer. It ignores where the team was in 2012 and where it is now as now as a contender. It also ignores that Jim Johnson was a experienced and effective setup man that got both righties and lefties out.

Again something that drives me nuts. When Jim Johnson was given the closer role to replace Kevin Gregg to begin the 2012 season the team was coming off a 69 win 2011. They where 28 games behind the division winners in 2011. Chris Davis was not Chris Davis yet. Manny was not Manny. In fact the team was not a contender at the beginning for 2012. It was a hopeful. And under those conditions giving the closer job to a setup guy that was reliable and had less than a 3.00 ERA versus both lefties and righties was a good move.

However now, that O's have had two winning seasons. With the right moves should be contenders. The team positioning is way different from ST 2012.

No one on the O's team is positioned the way Johnson way to close. Hunter has not proven he can get lefties out. Matusz can't get righties out. DD says O'Day is not even being considered to be the closer. Most contending team go into the season with an experienced closer. Not having one is the move of a 2nd division team. DD's comment drives me nuts.

3) Seeing Miguel Gonzalez being push down or minimize as a starter.

This is not so much a myth as a perception. I see Gonzalez being slighted as a starter pretty often. Fact is Miguel is 20-12, 3.65 ERA and a 1.217 WHIP over that last season and a half as a starter. That is a quality starter. Better numbers than Chen.

Some want to talk about his need for rest or him not going deep enough in games. These are both things that Buck has dealt with effectively and the results have been that Gonzalez has been the 2nd best starter for the O's for the last season and a half. Drives me nuts to see him not get the respect due him.

Just some things I want to get off my chest. Thanks for reading.

Great O.P.

The only thing that I would like to add is the biggest myth of all.

4) The Orioles DID NOT have back-to-back winning seasons in 2012 and 2013.

2014 could be their 17th consecutive losing season.

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WC,

Good post and good read.

My thoughts, I think Tillman in 2011, after going 2-5, 2-5, and 3-5, was on the verge of being waived from the team.

I think you're mixing up your years. Tillman after 2011 was looking like a bust, but he still had an option remaining (and it was used in 2012). He was in no danger of being waived. Then he broke through in 2012, so by the time he was out of options (2013), he had established himself as a pretty decent starter.

Also, please stop citing win-loss records. It's the 21st century.

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WC,

Good post and good read.

My thoughts, I think Tillman in 2011, after going 2-5, 2-5, and 3-5, was on the verge of being waived from the team.

This is the point Britton is at now, pretty much his last shot at the roster.

Tillman still had a option in 2012. He was in no danger of be waived in 2011 or 2012.

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Three things that bug me when I hear or read them.

1) Britton as this years Tillman.

I have read this several times. Roch just referenced to again in his blog. They reference to Britton being in the same position as Tillman last spring. Supposedly, both Tillman last year and Britton this year had/have to pitch well to make the team in ST or be waived.

While this is partly true, it is misleading and drives me nuts when I hear it. Last spring Tillman was coming off a great 2nd half of 2012 where he went 9-3 with a 2.93 ERA in 15 starts. He was not in danger of being waived by the team. Britton has not pitched well in a couple of years and is in danger of being waived with a bad spring. I hate the comparison.

2) Duquette's comment about Buck found a closer before he can do it again.

This comment is made to lessen the need for a experienced closer. It ignores where the team was in 2012 and where it is now as now as a contender. It also ignores that Jim Johnson was a experienced and effective setup man that got both righties and lefties out.

Again something that drives me nuts. When Jim Johnson was given the closer role to replace Kevin Gregg to begin the 2012 season the team was coming off a 69 win 2011. They where 28 games behind the division winners in 2011. Chris Davis was not Chris Davis yet. Manny was not Manny. In fact the team was not a contender at the beginning for 2012. It was a hopeful. And under those conditions giving the closer job to a setup guy that was reliable and had less than a 3.00 ERA versus both lefties and righties was a good move.

However now, that O's have had two winning seasons. With the right moves should be contenders. The team positioning is way different from ST 2012.

No one on the O's team is positioned the way Johnson way to close. Hunter has not proven he can get lefties out. Matusz can't get righties out. DD says O'Day is not even being considered to be the closer. Most contending team go into the season with an experienced closer. Not having one is the move of a 2nd division team. DD's comment drives me nuts.

3) Seeing Miguel Gonzalez being push down or minimized as a starter.

This is not so much a myth as a perception. I see Gonzalez being slighted as a starter pretty often. Fact is Miguel is 20-12, 3.65 ERA and a 1.217 WHIP over that last season and a half as a starter. That is a quality starter. Better numbers than Chen.

Some want to talk about his need for rest or him not going deep enough in games. These are both things that Buck has dealt with effectively and the results have been that Gonzalez has been the 2nd best starter for the O's for the last season and a half. Drives me nuts to see him not get the respect due him.

Just some things I want to get off my chest. Thanks for reading.

Well done WC, thanks for posting it. I especially appreciate #2. There will be hell to pay if a closer is not signed and Hunter fails. And it will be the GM's fault. Sign a closer Dan.

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Tillman still had a option in 2012. He was in no danger of be waived in 2011 or 2012.

Still, I think the intended comparison between Britton and Tillman relates to where Tillman was going into the 2012 season, not where he was going into the 2013 season. In 2012 Tillman was competing for a spot after struggling for several years. In 2013 Tillman was not competing for a spot, he was a presumptive member of the rotation. But the comparison with 2012 Tillman is apt enough.

I agree with your other points.

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Still, I think the intended comparison between Britton and Tillman relates to where Tillman was going into the 2012 season, not where he was going into the 2013 season. In 2012 Tillman was competing for a spot after struggling for several years. In 2013 Tillman was not competing for a spot, he was a presumptive member of the rotation. But the comparison with 2012 Tillman is apt enough.

I agree with your other points.

At no time in 2012 was Tillman in danger of being waived. He had a option and it was used.

Britton has no option left this year. If he doesn't pitch well he may be waived or traded.

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WC,

Good post and good read.

My thoughts, I think Tillman in 2011, after going 2-5, 2-5, and 3-5, was on the verge of being waived from the team.

This is the point Britton is at now, pretty much his last shot at the roster.

Sorry for the hijack wildcard...

Jane and George Jetson, from the opening credits. Right? :D

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And on Tillman/Britton, I agree they are not in the same situation Except for out of options. But I strongly disagree they waive Britton if he doesn't do well. They will hide him in the pen or trade him for peanuts, but there is NO way they cut him for absolutely nothing. No chance.

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Not sure what you mean?????

People are acting like the Orioles didn't have winning seasons in 2012 and 2013 and instead will have their 17th consecutive losing season in 2014.

It's as if people choose to ignore that they had winning records in 2012 and 2013 while they are crafting their snide remarks.

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And on Tillman/Britton, I agree they are not in the same situation Except for out of options. But I strongly disagree they waive Britton if he doesn't do well. They will hide him in the pen or trade him for peanuts, but there is NO way they cut him for absolutely nothing. No chance.

We are not disagreeing on that. Let's just say he would not make it through waivers. Hope he pitches well.

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People are acting like the Orioles didn't have winning seasons in 2012 and 2013 and instead will have their 17th consecutive losing season in 2014.

It's as if people choose to ignore that they had winning records in 2012 and 2013 while they are crafting their snide remarks.

And it drives him nuts. Got it. Thanks.

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