2014 Chris Tillman Today

[backwardsk]

Wow, just noticed I had a similar take on him. That makes sense if it was bothering him. You can't get any drive or your normal drive if you have tightness in the groin.

And watching it again the umpire definitely squeezes Chris on the 2-2 pitch to Ellsbury. BS because it's stick higher than the swinging strike.

In the post game, Tillman talked about working on slowing down his delivery so he could try to drive to the plate instead of fall to the plate.

[Il BuonO]

In the post game, Tillman talked about working on slowing down his delivery so he could try to drive to the plate instead of fall to the plate.

So, definitely mechanical then. Good to know. Thanks. Something to keep an eye on going forward.

[Flash- bd]

Has there ever been a pitcher whose velocity fluctuates so much from game to game as Tillman? I'd like to think we'll start to see this 92-94 Tillman from now on but having seen these kind of fluctuations for the last two years I expect he'll come out throwing 88-89 in the first inning next start. Yes, it's mechanics which cause the fluctuations (right??), and yes, he's tall, so the mechanics are complicated, but you don't even see such strong fluctuations with Jimenez. You'd think with all the modern technology at our disposal at some point we could figure out a way to get him near his higher end velocity more consistently, right? As I know nothing about pitching mechanics it'd be interesting to hear (more knowledgeable) people's thoughts on this.

You have to think that a version of Tillman who is always at 91-94 would be a rather valuable SP, a #3 or better? As it is, with his sometimes non-existent curveball control and average control in general he's going to be inconsistent...

[Il BuonO]

Has there ever been a pitcher whose velocity fluctuates so much from game to game as Tillman? I'd like to think we'll start to see this 92-94 Tillman from now on but having seen these kind of fluctuations for the last two years I expect he'll come out throwing 88-89 in the first inning next start. Yes, it's mechanics which cause the fluctuations (right??), and yes, he's tall, so the mechanics are complicated, but you don't even see such strong fluctuations with Jimenez. You'd think with all the modern technology at our disposal at some point we could figure out a way to get him near his higher end velocity more consistently, right? As I know nothing about pitching mechanics it'd be interesting to hear (more knowledgeable) people's thoughts on this.

You have to think that a version of Tillman who is always at 91-94 would be a rather valuable SP, a #3 or better? As it is, with his sometimes non-existent curveball control and average control in general he's going to be inconsistent...

First off, Jimenez has been just as inconsistent with his velocity. He started off the year at 89-90 and later went up to the 93mph range but has never been as high as Tillman. He has been more consistent as of late and you're right, there aren't the big swings as we've seen with Chris.

RZ had a good observation in his post in this thread after the game about Tillman's leg drive and Chris said in the PG presser that he has discovered that he needed to slow down his delivery to the plate instead of falling to the plate, if that makes any sense. Thanks to backwardsK for pointing that one out.

The best way I can describe it is if you watch him or have watched him in the past he has a tendency to fall off the mound to the 1B side and it's more pronounced when he isn't being deliberate, for lack of a better word. He needs to slow everything down to a crawl and drive towards the plate.

[Flash- bd]

First off, Jimenez has been just as inconsistent with his velocity. He started off the year at 89-90 and later went up to the 93mph range but has never been as high as Tillman. He has been more consistent as of late and you're right, there aren't the big swings as we've seen with Chris.

Yeah that's what I'm referring to. If you broke down avg. velocities from month to month or half to half with Jimenez and Tillman you might find it's quite similar, but from a start to start basis I haven't seen much like Tillman.

RZ had a good observation in his post in this thread after the game about Tillman's leg drive and Chris said in the PG presser that he has discovered that he needed to slow down his delivery to the plate instead of falling to the plate, if that makes any sense. Thanks to backwardsK for pointing that one out.

The best way I can describe it is if you watch him or have watched him in the past he has a tendency to fall off the mound to the 1B side and it's more pronounced when he isn't being deliberate, for lack of a better word. He needs to slow everything down to a crawl and drive towards the plate.

This all makes sense, and I've been reading the insights here with interest. I suppose it's almost a psychological thing where it's just difficult to get himself to slow down. But now that I'm thinking about it: does it explain why some days he hardly throws a pitch above 91 MPH, even when he's maxing out? It seems like some days he almost just doesn't have the same arm strength. Again, it's all very curious and foreign to me, so I defer to the more knowledgeable among us.

[Il BuonO]

There are different things that work for every player. I teach certain drills to players, but they don't always take. You have to be creative in how you communicate the idea that there are some universal concepts in pitching such as the front side staying closed and not flying open to the target.

With Chris and his work with Peterson and later Mike Griffin implementing that at Norfolk they reworked his delivery to the point where it looks as if he's starting out of the stretch. This was all to simplify things in his motion.

So, I would say more than others he needs to pay close attention to his mechanics. Remember he was being written off as a lost cause when he came back in 2012.

[Il BuonO]

So, I wanted go back and look at a few innings of Tillman's performance since RZ already nailed the overall view of his performance. I saw bits and pieces and was rushed while working so at first glance I thought Chris didn't get the benefit of the doubt on some pitches that Tanaka clearly was getting.

As in the 1st inning when he is ahead of Ellsbury and walks him. He clearly doesn't not get a call that clearly shows up a strike in the box.

Later in the 4th now and Ellsbury is up again and Tillman gets ahead with a beautiful 82 mph CH that runs away from Ellsbury who swings and misses. He then dots a 92 mph FB on the outer half that was perfect. Well, Jacoby didn't think so. The third pitch he bounced a CU. Now I know Tony has a thread praising Caleb for his pitch calling abilities but I thought this was a curious call. It's not bad and Chris puts it in a great spot, (I always tell kids to miss down or bury the breaking stuff, never miss up with it) but he had been struggling with the command of the CU all day. I would have come back with the CH that he already got a swing and miss on. He came back with a FB after the CU that missed it's spot out and caught too much of the plate and Ellsbury ripped a double.

He goes 2-0 on Teixeira but then gets him to hit into the shift. And then up comes McCann with Ellsbury on 3rd and only one out. I can't tell you the feeling of immense pride I had at this point when I hear the crack of the bat and Palmer, realizing Tillman has just gotten McCann to weakly popup on a 92 mph FB moans,"Ohhh." Thorne says,"And enormously important out for the moment." And Jim chimes in with,"Well, it was an enormously great pitch, too." Made my day. Palmer said it was up out of the zone but it was actually at the very top of it and pretty tough to hit off Chris.

Beltran walks, which I didn't mind since he's one of the more clutch hitters of my generation. Base open and two outs, don't make a mistake. Kelly Johnson then gives me a scare but luckily Tillman "saves his own bacon." That's shorthand for fielding his position on a comebacker according to Gary.

Then to start off the 5th he had another comebacker hit right off his left wrist for an out. I thought it strange they didn't come out to check on him but I know he waved them off. Ichiro doinks one down the LF line in no man's land for a single.

Gardner has some really tough ABs, he's pesky. Kinda whines, too. Fits right in as a player for Girardi. So, at 1-2 he throws a 93 mph FB, a 92 mph FB, (and I'm thining what JP says,"You could throw a CH maybe on corner or just off the corner....") a 93 mph FB, AND finally the CH comes and it's a beaut! At 85 mph and tailing away from Gardner he had little to no chance of hitting that pitch where Chris threw it. Well executed pitch right there. And Captain Clutch gets a 2-0 count but does nothing with a 91 mph FB on the fists weakly grounded to Manny at third to end the inning.

There's more of course, but the upside of this is that Chris was much better today. With his comments about his delivery to the plate maybe he's figured something out that he can keep a close eye on or the coaching staff can monitor going forward. The nice thing is there is still room for him to improve.

[SteveO]

There are different things that work for every player. I teach certain drills to players, but they don't always take. You have to be creative in how you communicate the idea that there are some universal concepts in pitching such as the front side staying closed and not flying open to the target.

With Chris and his work with Peterson and later Mike Griffin implementing that at Norfolk they reworked his delivery to the point where it looks as if he's starting out of the stretch. This was all to simplify things in his motion.

So, I would say more than others he needs to pay close attention to his mechanics. Remember he was being written off as a lost cause when he came back in 2012.

There are similarities to Ubaldo in some respects. It seems like Tillman and Ubaldo can be the least effective guys in the rotation when their mechanics are wonky but when their mechanics are right they can be very very effective. I see signs of hope that these two guys might get into a positive rut for bit. They are starting to get results even when things are not quite on.

[bobmc]

Tillman on not having Matt Wieters behind the plate:

"It was tough at first for me. He's the only guy I've ever thrown to. But Caleb (Joseph) is out there catching bullpens in between starts. Nicky (Hundley) does, too. They're getting to know their staff and they're right there on the same page. I don't think I shook off Caleb today one time. They do a great job."

Showalter on Tillman:

"Chris was solid. You can tell he was carrying a good fastball early, borderline pitches. He was without his curveball until the fifth inning. That made it a little different. I thought the changeup got him a couple of outs he needed. I thought physically he was prepared to go 110, 120 pitches. He was in a real good delivery."

http://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2014/06/hardy-on-rebounding-from-friday-night-loss-weve-got-a-short-memory.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[QBsILLEST1]

Yeah that's what I'm referring to. If you broke down avg. velocities from month to month or half to half with Jimenez and Tillman you might find it's quite similar, but from a start to start basis I haven't seen much like Tillman.

This all makes sense, and I've been reading the insights here with interest. I suppose it's almost a psychological thing where it's just difficult to get himself to slow down. But now that I'm thinking about it: does it explain why some days he hardly throws a pitch above 91 MPH, even when he's maxing out? It seems like some days he almost just doesn't have the same arm strength. Again, it's all very curious and foreign to me, so I defer to the more knowledgeable among us.

It is psychological in the sense of repeating your delivery and mechanics. Little by little you can deviate from the tempo and delivery you need to be at and before you know it, after a while, that "minor deviation" from what you are supposed to do ends up becoming a MAJOR deviation, so you kind of have to go back to square one, realize what you are doing wrong and fix it. Keep in mind, Tillman is a big guy at 6'5 and has a lot of moving parts, so it is a little easier for him to get out of wack than other pitchers.

Regardless, if he can remain back on track, I am pretty happy with the rotation moving forward. Its probably the best rotation we have had in quite some time IMO.

[Il BuonO]

Well, another quality, deep outing from Chris. The adjustment he made in his delivery with Wallace's watchful eye has made a difference. I thought the CU was better but he still had trouble commanding it. The biggest difference between tonight and his last start were the walks. His overall command was better and the one guy he walked I thought he had a couple pitches for strikes that weren't called.

I don't see his SO numbers changing until he gets better command of his secondaries, but he's progressing each start so it could come.

[Aristotelian]

Well, another quality, deep outing from Chris. The adjustment he made in his delivery with Wallace's watchful eye has made a difference. I thought the CU was better but he still had trouble commanding it. The biggest difference between tonight and his last start were the walks. His overall command was better and the one guy he walked I thought he had a couple pitches for strikes that weren't called.

I don't see his SO numbers changing until he gets better command of his secondaries, but he's progressing each start so it could come.

No doubt a good game for Chris and nice to start seeing some consistency from him. However, the portion of the game I saw I will note that he was getting a lot of hard hit fly ball outs. I think it was the 6th inning, every single out was a fly ball that sent the fielder back (Jones twice, then Nick once). He was also not throwing the curve for strikes. He has turned a corner for sure but still has some things to work on.

[scOtt]

No doubt a good game for Chris and nice to start seeing some consistency from him. However, the portion of the game I saw I will note that he was getting a lot of hard hit fly ball outs. I think it was the 6th inning, every single out was a fly ball that sent the fielder back (Jones twice, then Nick once). He was also not throwing the curve for strikes. He has turned a corner for sure but still has some things to work on.

Got squeezed a little by the homeplate ump, but yeah, curve isn't 100% yet. He's getting there for sure.

[OFFNY]

o

TEXAS RANGERS O (JULY 2nd)

Shin-Soo Choo - DH

Elvis Andrus - SS

Carlos Pena - 1B

Adrian Beltre - 3B

Alex Rios - RF

Leonys Martin - CF

Chris Gimenez - C

Rougneck Odor - 2B

Michael Choice - LF

Miles Mikoles - RHP (5-1, 3.22 E.R.A.) * OOO **

* AAA - Round Rock

** 2014 Season Major League Debut

[charles_goos]

I could see this performance coming from his last start, he got lucky the last time and now he didn't...but in both he's been hit hard.