Flaherty...what is the verdict?

[Old#5fan]

what an absurd comment to make

How so? Do you recall former Orioles second baseman/utility guy Jerry Hairston? He also fancied himself a power hitter as an Oriole and would overswing trying to kill the ball, sometimes so much so it was comical to watch. It wasn't until he departed the Orioles that some other hitting coach got him to cut down on his swing and he actually became a much better hitter. Flaherty isn't as bad at overswinging as Hairston was, but he has that same issue. It is pretty obvious if you watch him.

[Old#5fan]

With the shorter benches in today's game (by which I mean the decrease in position players on the 25-man, not reconfigured dugouts), the versatility of non-starters is quite valuable. Flaherty's ability to provide quality defense around the infield is unusual, when you compare him to the others mentioned in this thread. (I bet he could catch, and maybe pitch, in an emergency.)

To me, Flaherty differs from the prototypical utility IF in a few respects. Many utility infielders are fast, and many of them have value as pinch runners. Lots of them can bunt, and Flaherty should learn how to do that. Flaherty hits with some real power when he makes contact.

What is disappointing to me is that Flaherty sometimes looks like a capable hitter, especially when he's not pulling the ball, and seems like he should be able to help with this team's biggest weakness by providing a productive lefty bat. But he's been incapable of doing that, and at 28 the chances of that changing are slim. I find it hard to overcome the disappointment that he's not more than a utility IF, but that's what he is. And a good one.

You shouldn't find it so hard to over come "the disappointment that he's not more than a utility IF," as there was nothing to indicate this guy would ever develop into a good major league hitter. Nothing, nada, zilch!

[MrOrange82]

0.1 fWAR less valuable than Chris Davis this season, at 10% of the cost. Sigh...

[CA-ORIOLE]

How so? Do you recall former Orioles second baseman/utility guy Jerry Hairston? He also fancied himself a power hitter as an Oriole and would overswing trying to kill the ball, sometimes so much so it was comical to watch. It wasn't until he departed the Orioles that some other hitting coach got him to cut down on his swing and he actually became a much better hitter. Flaherty isn't as bad at overswinging as Hairston was, but he has that same issue. It is pretty obvious if you watch him.

I don't know why I bother, but his hits are actually fairly evenly distributed to all fields. Does he rollover to first, yes he does, but he is rarely even overshifted these days. He's got a .232 babip and probably has had a bit of bad luck, but he's simply not making good contact and not even hitting pretty hittable fastballs.

[DrungoHazewood]

You shouldn't find it so hard to over come "the disappointment that he's not more than a utility IF," as there was nothing to indicate this guy would ever develop into a good major league hitter. Nothing, nada, zilch!

You're constructing a pretty good argument for nihilism. The scouts who saw promise in Flaherty are useless. The stats, clearly in almost all cases, are useless. Ergo, in baseball all things are useless.

[spiritof66]

Some of his ABs make him look like a capable LH hitter with good power for a middle IF. You're right -- he's never been that player. He just has looked to me like he could be. Maybe what I mean is that I'm disappointed by my own misjudgment of another Oriole player's ability, just as I was wrong about Sam Bowens, Mark Corey, Jeffrey Hammonds, Juan Bell, Larry Bigbie, Luis Matos, and on and on. (I was right about Lew Ford, though.)

[Old#5fan]

You're constructing a pretty good argument for nihilism. The scouts who saw promise in Flaherty are useless. The stats, clearly in almost all cases, are useless. Ergo, in baseball all things are useless.

Way to take things to the extreme good sir. No, of course scouts aren't useless, but many of them make me question just how good they are at their jobs. The ones who scouted Billy Rowell, Manny Alexander, Wade Townsend, Beau Hale, and in football Kyle Boller, come to mind as just a few who make me wonder what the heck they were seeing.:eektf:

[DrungoHazewood]

Way to take things to the extreme good sir. No, of course scouts aren't useless, but many of them make me question just how good they are at their jobs. The ones who scouted Billy Rowell, Manny Alexander, Wade Townsend, Beau Hale, and in football Kyle Boller, come to mind as just a few who make me wonder what the heck they were seeing.:eektf:

Or maybe it's that scouting prospects is a little harder than evaluating those same players in retrospect.

[jtschrei]

I thought Flaherty would develop into an everyday guy. I liked his defense and I thought he would figure it out at the plate. He hasn't.

Buck likes him and that's all I really need to know. The question next year and the following year is how much does Buck like him. I think DD could dig up a bunch of guys just like Flaherty who could fill the utility role ? it's just how much does Buck want Flaherty on the team.

[Redskins Rick]

I thought Flaherty would develop into an everyday guy. I liked his defense and I thought he would figure it out at the plate. He hasn't.

Buck likes him and that's all I really need to know. The question next year and the following year is how much does Buck like him. I think DD could dig up a bunch of guys just like Flaherty who could fill the utility role ? it's just how much does Buck want Flaherty on the team.

Many of us, remember Mora and under very similiar conditions, super sub, great guy, solid defender. He made the switch to full time and very productive member of the roster.

We had high hopes for Flash.

[Can_of_corn]

Many of us, remember Mora and under very similiar conditions, super sub, great guy, solid defender. He made the switch to full time and very productive member of the roster.

We had high hopes for Flash.

I didn't.

Age rarely lies.

It lies even less often in a PED suppressed environment.

[Redskins Rick]

I didn't.

Age rarely lies.

It lies even less often in a PED suppressed environment.

Having high hopes, is different than having high expectations.

Age seams to have lied with Caleb this season.

B-Rob had a rough couple of years dueling with Hairston before giving the job and finding himself clicking behind the plate.

Brady was also similar, brilliant glove, flashes of ability with the bat, but very inconsistent and at 28, found his stroke.

[Can_of_corn]

The verdict is: damn good defensive 2B, SS, 3B, 1B, LF, and RF.

He isn't "damn good" in LF and RF.

I don't know why folks keep trying to say that. Lough would be an example of a player who is "damn good" in LF/RF.

[Can_of_corn]

Having high hopes, is different than having high expectations.

Age seams to have lied with Caleb this season.

B-Rob had a rough couple of years dueling with Hairston before giving the job and finding himself clicking behind the plate.

Brady was also similar, brilliant glove, flashes of ability with the bat, but very inconsistent and at 28, found his stroke.

Did you miss the part where I mentioned PEDs?

[DrungoHazewood]

Having high hopes, is different than having high expectations.

Age seams to have lied with Caleb this season.

B-Rob had a rough couple of years dueling with Hairston before giving the job and finding himself clicking behind the plate.

Brady was also similar, brilliant glove, flashes of ability with the bat, but very inconsistent and at 28, found his stroke.

You shouldn't tie your hopes to outliers. Ok, more accurately, you shouldn't expect underachievers to have late career surges. Guys who OPS .600 through age 27 are more likely to end up playing for the Long Island Ducks than the AL All Star team.