Flaherty...what is the verdict?

[Hallas]

But, who is going to pay him more than that? I like Flaherty's glove and he seems to be a good fit. I'd take slightly less defense for someone that has the ability to get on base a little more and perhaps add some more speed. I'm fine with Flaherty in the role he's in, though.

If they were this, they'd be starters. Most people that can get on base more are horribad defensively if they aren't already starting.

[Oriole1940]

Ryan is the textbook example of the "6th" man as basketball puts it. He would win the "6th" man award there. Not an everyday player, so why do successful teams carry people like Ryan? Because those kinds of people help teams win. Go Ryan and go Orioles. Let us get a W.S. this year.

[Babypowder]

Ryan Flaherty is a versatile role player with plus-ish fielding skills, and some occasional pop in his bat. He is the consummate utility player that every MLB team desires. Why some people here are upset that Flaherty isn't a full-time player, and doesn't hit like a super star in a utility role, is beyond understanding. The light-hitting Flaherty has stepped in and more than adequately filled in defensively for an injured Machado, an injured Hardy, and an injured Schoop. And the Orioles have still flourished. Be happy with that 9-game AL East lead.

It also appears that many of the Flaherty haters are the same folks who are dissatisfied with Schoop at 2B. Are they so blinded by their prejudicial, and unrealistic, "star-player-at-every-position" desires that they can't see that Scoop is a budding star?

Rant over...........

Budding star? I'm not sure how anyone watching a guy putting up a 68 wRC+ sees a budding star.

.614 OPSs scream star for sure.

That Adam Jonesesque 2.7 percent walk rate is star caliber.

I know he's young and he's likely to get better, but he certainly has not played like a "budding star" this year.

[olehippi]

Budding star? I'm not sure how anyone watching a guy putting up a 68 wRC+ sees a budding star.

.614 OPSs scream star for sure.

That Adam Jonesesque 2.7 percent walk rate is star caliber.

I know he's young and he's likely to get better, but he certainly has not played like a "budding star" this year.

So you recognize his youth - he really should have been playing at Norfolk this year- and acknowledge the almost certain fact that he will get better, but choose to ignore the fact that he is struggling because he is learning at the ML level. That makes progress hard to judge, but the "professional" baseball people running the Orioles sure seem to see and like Schoop's potential.

[brianod]

I'm not giving up on him. I still believe he can be an above average 2b in the major leagues. He may have to be. I can see Manny at ss, Schoop at 3b and Flaherty at 2b next year. Do I want to see that? Hell no, but you don't always get what you want.

[BohKnowsBmore]

I'm not giving up on him. I still believe he can be an above average 2b in the major leagues. He may have to be. I can see Manny at ss, Schoop at 3b and Flaherty at 2b next year. Do I want to see that? Hell no, but you don't always get what you want.

I think they find a way to keep Hardy. Part of me thinks that the reason DD hasn't done any in-season negotiation is that he wants to see how the season ends. Perhaps if they win it all he'd be more willing to cut bait with older guys, get the QO picks and be able to rebuild on the fly. Or maybe the team is just scared by Hardy's back this season and want to see if he ends healthy before offering any guaranteed $$.

[Flash- bd]

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[DrungoHazewood]

Budding star? I'm not sure how anyone watching a guy putting up a 68 wRC+ sees a budding star.

.614 OPSs scream star for sure.

That Adam Jonesesque 2.7 percent walk rate is star caliber.

I know he's young and he's likely to get better, but he certainly has not played like a "budding star" this year.

So, in the 1954-2010 era there were 55 middle infielders who had an OPS+ at age 22 between 61 and 81 (min 200 PAs). Schoop is 22 and has a 71 OPS+.

For their whole careers:

- 5 never played in the majors again

- 12 had below-replacement careers by rWAR

- 8 were worth between 0 and 5 rWAR

- 7 were worth between 5 and 10 rWAR

- 13 were worth between 10 and 20 rWAR

- 7 were worth between 20 and 40 rWAR

- the remaning 2 were Toby Harrah (51 rWAR) and Luis Aparicio (55 rWAR)

Aparicio and Bill Mazeroski made the Hall from this list. Dave Concepcion has gotten some HOF support.

Among those who appeared in the majors after age 22, the median game played total was about 1000 and median plate appearance total was about 3700. Some other notable names among players who had Schoop-like age 22 seasons include Julio Cruz, Mariano Duncan, Zolio Versalles, Curt Stillwell, Joey Cora, Christian Guzman, Tonk Kubek, Dick Schofield, Mark McLemore, Royce Clayton, Bip Roberts, Roy Smalley, Edgardo Alfonso, Tony Taylor, and Don Money.

Alfonso ended up with three six-win seasons, including a season with a .967 OPS. Harrah had a 7-, a 6- and a 5-win season. Versalles was an MVP. Bip Roberts had a nearly 6-win season. Duncan and Rennie Stennett hit .336 and .340 in individual seasons.

So, based on this one search it's not terribly likely that Schoop becomes a big star. But he has a good chance to have a fairly long, reasonably successful career as a regular player.

[Old#5fan]

He isn't "damn good" in LF and RF.

I don't know why folks keep trying to say that. Lough would be an example of a player who is "damn good" in LF/RF.

Right, I agree with this, which is another reason I am really amazed at some of the stuff I read here regarding Flaherty. Redskin Rick for example made a counter point to you about age not always being a factor by pointing out a late blooming Caleb Joseph, but then he also made a pretty lame attempt at comparing Flaherty to Melvin Mora, as if simply because Melvin started out as a super sub and became a regular third baseman, Flaherty had that career path ahead of him. That was an absurd leap to be sure as Mora always could hit the ball with consistent contact, waaaaaaaaaay better than Flaherty who to me, has generally looked lost at the plate most of the time and that hasn't changed by having more AB's either.

[Babypowder]

So, in the 1954-2010 era there were 55 middle infielders who had an OPS+ at age 22 between 61 and 81 (min 200 PAs). Schoop is 22 and has a 71 OPS+.

For their whole careers:

- 5 never played in the majors again

- 12 had below-replacement careers by rWAR

- 8 were worth between 0 and 5 rWAR

- 7 were worth between 5 and 10 rWAR

- 13 were worth between 10 and 20 rWAR

- 7 were worth between 20 and 40 rWAR

- the remaning 2 were Toby Harrah (51 rWAR) and Luis Aparicio (55 rWAR)

Aparicio and Bill Mazeroski made the Hall from this list. Dave Concepcion has gotten some HOF support.

Among those who appeared in the majors after age 22, the median game played total was about 1000 and median plate appearance total was about 3700. Some other notable names among players who had Schoop-like age 22 seasons include Julio Cruz, Mariano Duncan, Zolio Versalles, Curt Stillwell, Joey Cora, Christian Guzman, Tonk Kubek, Dick Schofield, Mark McLemore, Royce Clayton, Bip Roberts, Roy Smalley, Edgardo Alfonso, Tony Taylor, and Don Money.

Alfonso ended up with three six-win seasons, including a season with a .967 OPS. Harrah had a 7-, a 6- and a 5-win season. Versalles was an MVP. Bip Roberts had a nearly 6-win season. Duncan and Rennie Stennett hit .336 and .340 in individual seasons.

So, based on this one search it's not terribly likely that Schoop becomes a big star. But he has a good chance to have a fairly long, reasonably successful career as a regular player.

And that's all fine. He seemed to be suggesting that Schoop is a budding star RIGHT NOW. I agree he has potential to be a solid player, probably not a star, but I certainly haven't seen anything this year to quantify him as a budding star in 2014. He's been one of the worst hitters in baseball.

When I hear budding star I think of Michael Brantley this year. A younger guy having his first really good season. I don't think of a 22 year old who should be in AAA who is failing to even tread water.

[Can_of_corn]

And that's all fine. He seemed to be suggesting that Schoop is a budding star RIGHT NOW. I agree he has potential to be a solid player, probably not a star, but I certainly haven't seen anything this year to quantify him as a budding star in 2014. He's been one of the worst hitters in baseball.

When I hear budding star I think of Michael Brantley this year. A younger guy having his first really good season. I don't think of a 22 year old who should be in AAA who is failing to even tread water.

What is your definition of treading water? To me treading water is anything north of replacement level.

Schoop has 1.4 rWAR and .8fWAR.

To me that counts as treading water.

Of course most of the value is with the glove and some folks don't think run prevention counts as much as run production...

[Babypowder]

What is your definition of treading water? To me treading water is anything north of replacement level.

Schoop has 1.4 rWAR and .8fWAR.

To me that counts as treading water.

Of course most of the value is with the glove and some folks don't think run prevention counts as much as run production...

I am not one of those people.

An average starter I guess? Maybe that's too strong.

[Can_of_corn]

I am not one of those people.

An average starter I guess? Maybe that's too strong.

I don't think he is an average starter at this point, but I do think he meets the threshold for treading water.

He certainly isn't the worst second baseman in the league.

[Babypowder]

I don't think he is an average starter at this point, but I do think he meets the threshold for treading water.

He certainly isn't the worst second baseman in the league.

Fair enough. I agree. I was just mainly disputing that he looked like a budding star in 2014.

[Can_of_corn]

Fair enough. I agree. I was just mainly disputing that he looked like a budding star in 2014.

I agree that it is premature.

I am curious how his defense will grade out at the end of the year.