Chen vs Right-handed heavy Tigers lineup

[DrungoHazewood]

So at what point can anybody ever question anything a manager/GM does?

I'm fine with questioning everything. I'm not so fine with the attitude that the guy who's just managed the team to 270-some wins in three years is so blockheaded that he continually makes obviously idiotic moves with no justification. Every time Buck does something that doesn't work out we get a bunch of "well, told you that was dumb six months ago, but Buck ain't got the sense god gave an animal cracker and nobody listens to me."

[Crabby9]

It will be interesting to see what Buck does with Chen should they advance.

And I don't think so many of you should take offense with disagreeing with Buck on this call. I could count the number of posters on one hand who believe that was a good move and absolutely no one was surprised to see Chen struggle against this lineup. I think it's okay to question him on this. But win or lose, we should move on.

[Can_of_corn]

It will be interesting to see what Buck does with Chen should they advance.

And I don't think so many of you should take offense with disagreeing with Buck on this call. I could count the number of posters on one hand who believe that was a good move and absolutely no one was surprised to see Chen struggle against this lineup. I think it's okay to question him on this. But win or lose, we should move on.

I wouldn't have an issue with Chen starting going forward. I am a fan of his, the Tigers and just not a good matchup.

[Reboulet'sStache]

I'm fine with questioning everything. I'm not so fine with the attitude that the guy who's just managed the team to 270-some wins in three years is so blockheaded that he continually makes obviously idiotic moves with no justification. Every time Buck does something that doesn't work out we get a bunch of "well, told you that was dumb six months ago, but Buck ain't got the sense got gave an animal cracker and nobody listens to me."

I don't think there has been a ton of that this year. Maybe in Buck's past, but he has been fired from a lot of jobs, so I assume there was probably a justification for it to some extent. But this year he has been great, he seems like he has adjusted and not been stuck in a box. Pulls starters when they should be pulled, brings Miller in in the 6th to face the heart of the order, etc. He's been a wizard this year. But starting Chen just didn't make any sense based on the numbers. On a message board, which usually is reserved for the most passionate fans, the idea that "Buck is great. Shut up and don't engage in any discussion on highly question moves" just seems silly.

[CA-ORIOLE]

I'm fine with questioning everything. I'm not so fine with the attitude that the guy who's just managed the team to 270-some wins in three years is so blockheaded that he continually makes obviously idiotic moves with no justification. Every time Buck does something that doesn't work out we get a bunch of "well, told you that was dumb six months ago, but Buck ain't got the sense got gave an animal cracker and nobody listens to me."

Yeah, this is where I'm at on this. I think it gets over the top. Everybody knows Chen starting today presented obvious concerns. Were those pre-game concerns anywhere near the hysterics after he got knocked out? A week ago Buck was a complete moron for losing the Jeter game, resting guys, testing some others and throwing the team into a state of apathy that was bound to carry into the playoffs.

[Can_of_corn]

I'm fine with questioning everything. I'm not so fine with the attitude that the guy who's just managed the team to 270-some wins in three years is so blockheaded that he continually makes obviously idiotic moves with no justification. Every time Buck does something that doesn't work out we get a bunch of "well, told you that was dumb six months ago, but Buck ain't got the sense got gave an animal cracker and nobody listens to me."

I think it is apparent that Buck does some things by the "book". And some of us don't think that is a valid justification. It certainly doesn't mean that we think Buck is a poor manager or "has the sense of an animal cracker".

[ArtVanDelay]

At least we escaped this game with the win and Chen won't have to pitch to this lineup again. I love Chen, but there's no denying that pitching him today was a bad idea. The Tigers let a great opportunity slip through their hands.

[quidam]

You don't manage a team or any one game with regard to a player's ego. These guys all have confidence, it comes with the territory of being a ML ball player. Part of Buck's job description is to manage personalities. If it were the case, and I see no signs of it with Chen or anyone else on this team, Buck I'm sure has the wherewithal to sit someone down and explain his thinking on why a decision is being made. I've heard him say as much before about guys being sent down during the season. He doesn't like doing it. They don't like having it done, but they get it.It's the same thing here. Going into this series, you take everything else out of it except the team we're facing and which pitcher is best equipped to get the job done.I wouldn't have said Jimenez a month ago to make the roster but I like the decision now. Chen just didn't match up well and if his confidence couldn't hold up through a decision that benefitted the team then he didn't have very much in the first place.

Who said anything about Chen's ego? I don't equate a players confidence to having an ego.

As I mentioned before, I definitely protect Chen in this series. Most likely pitching him in Detroit and possibly game 4. The point is these decisions are not black and white.

[25 Nuggets]

Chen's splits vs. potential ALCS opponent:

KC - 158 PA (6 games), .313/.331/.487 (.818)

LA - 46 PA (2 games), .250/.348/.550 (.898)

...and the opponent's splits in 2014...

KC - .682 vs RHP, .710 vs LHP

LA - .716 vs RHP, .763 vs LHP

Still doesn't look good for Chen.

[AdamK]

Chen's splits vs. potential ALCS opponent:

KC - 158 PA (6 games), .313/.331/.487 (.818)

LA - 46 PA (2 games), .250/.348/.550 (.898)

...and the opponent's splits in 2014...

KC - .682 vs RHP, .710 vs LHP

LA - .716 vs RHP, .763 vs LHP

Still doesn't look good for Chen.

I might like the Chen / Gausman combo again. Next time, plan on it in the 4th.

[TonySoprano]

So Buck decided to not have the O's bat in the 8th and 9th? Somehow they missed that on the radio.

We did decide to skip batting in the 9th

[atomic]

You know, I really despise this cop out.

Unless you think Buck and Dan are actually divine then they can make mistakes. It is possible that even someone as lowly as us here on this board and realize that Buck is going to make a mistake.

When people question Buck in a game with zero meaning against the Yankees it get really tiresome. Or the same people were going on and on about how letting Reimold go was such a big mistake. Buck is thinking a head to the next series and that means keeping his starters in shape to pitch the rest of the post season. To think he doesn't know how the Tigers do against left handlers is silly he is always prepared and is thinking about more than one game when making a decision.

[Filmstudy]

Funny how people on a message board think they know everything, while the man they are questioning is on the dugout of a playoff game.

Some people on this board need help with reality.

I understand this point of view and Buck has made a lot of great decisions, but people in all professions make lousy decisions. Doctors, Lawyers, Actuaries, CEOs, etc. A common reaction of all professions is to wall off their own decisions (something Buck would not do, IMO) behind the thin veil of experience and the professional fraternity. In truth, those people tend to be good at some, but not all, aspects of the critical decisions they make. Particularly in professions that impact lots of people (and sports with teams' fans are included) those decisions can and should have a hard light shined on them. And to say the only people qualified to do so are others in the same profession is a complete load of crap.

This was a lousy decision by Buck, at least in retrospect. He's still the best manager in baseball.

[atomic]

I understand this point of view and Buck has made a lot of great decisions, but people in all professions make lousy decisions. Doctors, Lawyers, Actuaries, CEOs, etc. A common reaction of all professions is to wall off their own decisions (something Buck would not do, IMO) behind the thin veil of experience and the professional fraternity. In truth, those people tend to be good at some, but not all, aspects of the critical decisions they make. Particularly in professions that impact lots of people (and sports with teams' fans are included) those decisions can and should have a hard light shined on them. And to say the only people qualified to do so are others in the same profession is a complete load of crap.

This was a lousy decision by Buck, at least in retrospect. He's still the best manager in baseball.

Wait a second, I thought we won the game today?

[Can_of_corn]

When people question Buck in a game with zero meaning against the Yankees it get really tiresome. Or the same people were going on and on about how letting Reimold go was such a big mistake. Buck is thinking a head to the next series and that means keeping his starters in shape to pitch the rest of the post season. To think he doesn't know how the Tigers do against left handlers is silly he is always prepared and is thinking about more than one game when making a decision.

Who made the accusation that Buck DOESN'T KNOW?

I am guessing no one. I am guessing you are making things up.