Mussina does not make my HOF ballot

[zxlkho]

I know Koufax is in the HoF, but I personally wouldn't have put him in. He was great for a short period of time, pedestrian otherwise... yes, it is the same argument. But at least he COULD have been better for a long time if he didn't have injuries which ended his career.

I value consistency over a players career over short spurts of dominance.

I know this is your personal preference or whatever, but I just can't understand that thought process at all.

To me (and I would hope every baseball fan), the Hall of Fame election process is about recognition on all-time great players. Players who, without their on-field contributions, the history of baseball would be fundamentally different. Pedro Martinez and Sandy Koufax both fit that definition exactly, in a very similar way.

[CanadianOriole]

John Smoltz went 15-4 with a 2.67 ERA, 1.14 WHIP, and 4 saves for his career in the postseason with most of those appearances coming in the heart of the steroid era.

He left Game 7 of the '91 World Series tied 0-0 against Jack Morris - had the Braves scored him a run that game his performance in those playoffs would be legendary. His postseason brilliance has been lost somewhat due to the Braves repeatedly coming up short in the postseason (HOFers Maddux and Glavine both sub .500 in postseason) - but there was probably no better big game pitcher year after year than John Smoltz. With 213 wins and 154 saves and a career of postseaon brilliance - John Smoltz has to get in.

[weams]

Please don't take this as a personal attack but...

people like OP are the reason why the baseball HOF voting is such a mess right now. There are SO MANY deserving candidates on the ballot. I count 15. Most of the great players of the last era are being denied for silly reasons.

Many of them were not that great. They just played in an era that homer runs were inflated. For whatever reason. They weren't that great. In the context of history.

[AlbionHero]

18 years during the height of the steroid era with a career ERA of 2.93. A slam dunk.

Andruw Jones had the 3rd most WAR among all players between 1996-2005, only behind Bonds and Rodriguez.

Is he a slam dunk?

I wouldn't say so, since he wasn't consistently good long enough in his career. Same thing with Pedro.

Pedro will make it in I'm sure. Just not first ballot... especially when compared to Randy Johnson, who beats him in everything from awards to counting stats.

[weams]

John Smoltz went 15-4 with a 2.67 ERA, 1.14 WHIP, and 4 saves for his career in the postseason with most of those appearances coming in the heart of the steroid era.

He left Game 7 of the '91 World Series tied 0-0 against Jack Morris - had the Braves scored him a run that game his performance in those playoffs would be legendary. His postseason brilliance has been lost somewhat due to the Braves repeatedly coming up short in the postseason (HOFers Maddux and Glavine both sub .500 in postseason) - but there was probably no better big game pitcher year after year than John Smoltz. With 213 wins and 154 saves and a career of postseaon brilliance - John Smoltz has to get in.

Smoltz was excellent.

[weams]

Andruw Jones had the 3rd most WAR among all players between 1996-2005, only behind Bonds and Rodriguez.

Is he a slam dunk?

I wouldn't say so, since he wasn't consistently good long enough in his career. Same thing with Pedro.

Pedro will make it in I'm sure. Just not first ballot... especially when compared to Randy Johnson, who beats him in everything from awards to counting stats.

Andruw Jones won't even be considered. For the same reason McGwire isn't.

[AlbionHero]

Andruw Jones won't even be considered. For the same reason McGwire isn't.

Are you saying he used steroids? Was he ever on any report or admitted he used them? I don't remember anything like that.

[zxlkho]

Many of them were not that great. They just played in an era that homer runs were inflated.

I agree with you there. That's why I wouldn't want to include guys like Sheffield or McGriff. However, there are other guys out there like Edgar Martinez and Bagwell that are overlooked because of the mindset that currently exists with the voters.

[zxlkho]

Andruw Jones had the 3rd most WAR among all players between 1996-2005, only behind Bonds and Rodriguez.

Is he a slam dunk?

I wouldn't say so, since he wasn't consistently good long enough in his career. Same thing with Pedro.

Pedro will make it in I'm sure. Just not first ballot... especially when compared to Randy Johnson, who beats him in everything from awards to counting stats.

This is a tough argument to make because Andruw Jones' WAR comes mostly from defense.

[weams]

Are you saying he used steroids? Was he ever on any report or admitted he used them? I don't remember anything like that.

I am not saying anything of the sort. I have no idea who used steroids, in the steroid era.

[LoyalBirdFan]

John Smoltz went 15-4 with a 2.67 ERA, 1.14 WHIP, and 4 saves for his career in the postseason with most of those appearances coming in the heart of the steroid era.

He left Game 7 of the '91 World Series tied 0-0 against Jack Morris - had the Braves scored him a run that game his performance in those playoffs would be legendary. His postseason brilliance has been lost somewhat due to the Braves repeatedly coming up short in the postseason (HOFers Maddux and Glavine both sub .500 in postseason) - but there was probably no better big game pitcher year after year than John Smoltz. With 213 wins and 154 saves and a career of postseaon brilliance - John Smoltz has to get in.

This is a good post. You have to take the whole body of work into account and the post season might be the defining factor when voting for the HOF.

[25 Nuggets]

You do realize that Walter Johnson pitched a lot of his career in the dead ball era and Pedro Martinez pitched in the steroid era?

That's irrelevant if you use ERA+, times leading the league and such. The only case Martinez has over Johnson is that he played in an integrated league with international signings, thereby having stiffer competition. Without that point, the Big Train is widely considered the #1 pitcher in the history of baseball.

So it's not a bad thing for Pedro to fall short of Walter. Everyone else does too.

[weams]

That's irrelevant if you use ERA+, times leading the league and such. The only case Martinez has over Johnson is that he played in an integrated league with international signings, thereby having stiffer competition. Without that point, the Big Train is widely considered the #1 pitcher in the history of baseball.

So it's not a bad thing for Pedro to fall short of Walter. Everyone else does too.

I'm not sure Walter would have handled the steroid era.

[weams]

Rose shouldn't get in before Shoeless Joe. Shoeless Joe is the biggest injustice in the MLB. Clemens and Bonds are not so nice folks but both are HOFerS, with or without the juice. I assure you many will get in that were on the juice but just not caught.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We don't allow gamblers to be enshrined. Whether they bet on the the team, or against it.

[beervendor]

Andruw Jones had the 3rd most WAR among all players between 1996-2005, only behind Bonds and Rodriguez.

Is he a slam dunk?

I wouldn't say so, since he wasn't consistently good long enough in his career. Same thing with Pedro.

Pedro will make it in I'm sure. Just not first ballot... especially when compared to Randy Johnson, who beats him in everything from awards to counting stats.

Plenty of guys like Andruw Jones with stretches of very-good-to-great who have no business in Cooperstown without a ticket. But there are also a handful with stretches of incredible-to-historic who deserve enshrinement (or at least discussion). Guys like Koufax, Bob Feller, Satchel Paige, Roy Campanella, Bo Jackson, Mark Fidrych, Gooden - some in, some out, but all of them woven in the game's fabric in a way Andruw Jones could never understand.