Mussina does not make my HOF ballot

[Can_of_corn]

Wins have been a major factor for as long as there has been a HOF.

And they were a major factor in Cy Young voting...right up until they weren't.

[Can_of_corn]

FIP is a meaningless stat.

You spelled pitching wins wrong.

[crawjo]

Anybody who has followed the history of the Hall of Fame knows that what is happening right now is a total train wreck. People have to dispense with all these stupid rules about who is a "first ballot" HOFer and who isn't and just vote for the guys who are deserving of HOF induction. The fact that guys like Biggio, Bagwell and Piazza are still on the ballot is a joke...Any understanding of the caliber of players in the HOF (there are 240 of them) shows that all three of those are clear Hall of Famers. And then you've got all the steroid guys, where nobody can agree on whether they should even be eligible for the Hall of Fame. The process is pretty clearly broken right now. Hopefully the writers this year elect, at minimum, Johnson, Martinez, and Biggio just to keep the line moving and clear out some of the clutter on the ballot now.

[dorfmac]

For first year guys, Pedro and Randy should definitely be in. I also think Smoltz and Sheffield should, although not as first ballot.

Of the holdovers, plenty should go. Biggio, Piazza, Bagwell, Clemens, Bonds, Martinez, Mussina, Kent, McGwire, Sosa.

I feel like Kent is the guy who is most overlooked of the group. He was one of the most prolific offensive second basemen in the history of the game.

[Frobby]

I know Koufax is in the HoF, but I personally wouldn't have put him in. He was great for a short period of time, pedestrian otherwise... yes, it is the same argument. But at least he COULD have been better for a long time if he didn't have injuries which ended his career.

I value consistency over a players career over short spurts of dominance.

I think there's room for both, and I wouldn't really call Pedro's dominant period "short ". For me, that's guys like Dwight Gooden and Ron Guidry.

[PaulFolk]

Wins have been a major factor for as long as there has been a HOF.

But why do you believe pitching wins to be important? Just because they matter to crusty HOF voters who haven't covered baseball in 15 years doesn't mean they should hold any value to you. We should be talking about who deserves to be voted in, not who the HOF voters will vote in.

[wildcard]

They weren't with Koufax and they won't be from now on; nobody will ever win 300 games again the way the game is played now. Pedro was probably the best pitcher of his era and to not vote him in is absurd.

Pedro pales in comparison to Koufax. Koufax pitched in a 4 man rotation. He pitched 300 innings per season 3 times. He won 25 games or more three times. Pedro did none of that. The comparison with Koufax is not why Pedro will make the Hall.

[TakebackOPACY]

A truly great player stays at that level for more than just 7 years.

I agree, he was the most dominant pitcher during that time. But he needed to stay at a high level to be considered a truly great all time player... he was an average 3.50-4.00 ERA type of pitcher outside of that dominate period.

Three of his 3.50+ seasons were Ace-caliber 4+ rWAR seasons. Baseball Reference has Pedro at 11 consecutive years of 4+ WAR. Fangraphs has Pedro at 10 consecutive seasons of 5+ WAR (and 12 consecutive of 3+ WAR).

[Frobby]

Poor team? His teams played to a .550 mark. The only truly bad team he played for was in his rookie year.

How'd they play when Mussina wasn't pitching? I feel like in 1998-2000 they were pretty bad except when Moose was on the mound.

[SouthernBird]

Mattingly needs to get in this year. Career 300 hitter, franchise player. He needs to be let in. Why is Jermaine Dye even in there...wow.

[Can_of_corn]

How'd they play when Mussina wasn't pitching? I feel like in 1998-2000 they were pretty bad except when Moose was on the mound.

He went 11-15 in 2000.

You could make the case that he kept the O's respectable in '95 and '99. I still don't think those teams would have been really bad if you had replaced him with a generic #3.

The only 90 loss team he played for was the '91 club.

[wildcard]

But why do you believe pitching wins to be important? Just because they matter to crusty HOF voters who haven't covered baseball in 15 years doesn't mean they should hold any value to you. We should be talking about who deserves to be voted in, not who the HOF voters will vote in.

I am trying to make this a simple as a can. Randy Johnson is the class of the players on the ballot. He pitched at a high level longer than any one else on the ballot. His wins and innings pitched emphasize how much he belongs.

Of the 72 pitcher in the HOF, Pedro would rank 60th in Inning Pitched. And don't compare him to Koufax who pitched in a 4 man rotation and pitched 300 innings 3 three times.

Don Drydale pitched few inning than Pedro. It took him 10 years after he was eligible to be voted in.

Here is a question for you. Of the 12 HOF pitchers that pitched less innings than Pedro, how many were voted in first ballot? Relievers don't count. There may not have been any not named Koufax.

I am not saying that Pedro should not make the Hall. But I don't think he pitch enough inning to be a first ballot guy.

Pedro pitch 2827.1 innings. http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/hof_pitching.shtml

[MurphDogg]

I am trying to make this a simple as a can. Randy Johnson is the class of the players on the ballot. He pitched at a high level longer than any one else on the ballot. His wins and innings pitched emphasize how much he belongs.

Of the 72 pitcher in the HOF, Pedro would rank 60th in Inning Pitched. And don't compare him to Koufax who pitched in a 4 man rotation and pitched 300 innings 3 three times.

Don Drydale pitched few inning than Pedro. It took him 10 years after he was eligible to be voted in.

Here is a question for you. Of the 12 HOF pitchers that pitched less innings than Pedro, how many were voted in first ballot? Relievers don't count. There may not have been any not named Koufax.

I am not saying that Pedro should not make the Hall. But I don't think he pitch enough inning to be a first ballot guy.

Pedro pitch 2827.1 innings. http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/hof_pitching.shtml

How can you rank pitchers by innings pitched while disregarding that Pedro is one of only a handful of those pitchers ranked to have pitched in a five man rotation for his entire career? If you pitch in a five man rotation you will make 8 fewer starts a season. If you make 8 fewer starts a season you will end up with fewer innings pitched. It isn't complicated.

[weams]

I am trying to make this a simple as a can. Randy Johnson is the class of the players on the ballot. He pitched at a high level longer than any one else on the ballot. His wins and innings pitched emphasize how much he belongs.

Of the 72 pitcher in the HOF, Pedro would rank 60th in Inning Pitched. And don't compare him to Koufax who pitched in a 4 man rotation and pitched 300 innings 3 three times.

Don Drydale pitched few inning than Pedro. It took him 10 years after he was eligible to be voted in.

Here is a question for you. Of the 12 HOF pitchers that pitched less innings than Pedro, how many were voted in first ballot? Relievers don't count. There may not have been any not named Koufax.

I am not saying that Pedro should not make the Hall. But I don't think he pitch enough inning to be a first ballot guy.

Pedro pitch 2827.1 innings. http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/hof_pitching.shtml

But Pedro will get in first ballot. Just not with your vote.

[ShaneDawg85]

Mike Mussina deserves to be in the Hall of Fame, and he will be one day. It won't be this year, even though it should have been last year, but it will happen one day. That's all I have to say about that.