Mussina does not make my HOF ballot

[Flash- bd]

18 years during the height of the steroid era with a career ERA of 2.93. A slam dunk.

Haha, nothing more needs to be said. Honestly can't believe he's being argued against.

[Rene88]

Careening OT here, but Shoeless Joe conspired to throw WS games. Took money to lose, regardless of how well he performed in the end. One could argue it is an injustice, but so could one argue Rose - while by all accounts a far worse person than Jackson - never bet against his own team. While Jackson was a more sympathetic figure neither man is without sin, and "who's sin is worse" is debatable.

Joe didn't understand what he was signing. He was of below average intelligence and couldn't barely read and write. Look at his stats for the series. For someone intentionally throwing a series, he did a bad job.

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[LoyalBirdFan]

Everyone has a different opinion on the HOF.

The HOF has become a vehicle to celebrate players and maybe thats the intention. In my opinion, it should celebrate the game. That means no one should be excluded. You can't erase history. How can you leave out Rose? Maybe they display the story of Rose. The same with the PED users. Since when do I have to like a guy to put him in the HOF?

I see nothing wrong with, "And here is the dirtbag Joe Blow who hit his mother and 97 HRs. He later admitted he took LSD before each game".

I don't like the ten year rule either. Suppose Gern Blandsten, a 21 year old SS for the 2037 San Antonio Orioles, hits .435 and steals 178 bases and then dies in a traffic accident. From a baseball perspective, this story should be in the HOF.

That's my opinion, but I don't sweat about it. It seems like baseball is always trying to hide the bad.

Pedro (and Mussina) should be in the HOF, no question.

[weams]

Everyone has a different opinion on the HOF.

The HOF has become a vehicle to celebrate players and maybe thats the intention. In my opinion, it should celebrate the game. That means no one should be excluded. You can't erase history. How can you leave out Rose? Maybe they display the story of Rose. The same with the PED users. Since when do I have to like a guy to put him in the HOF?

I see nothing wrong with, "And here is the dirtbag Joe Blow who hit his mother and 97 HRs. He later admitted he took LSD before each game".

I don't like the ten year rule either. Suppose Gern Blandsten, a 21 year old SS for the 2037 San Antonio Orioles, hits .435 and steals 178 bases and then dies in a traffic accident. From a baseball perspective, this story should be in the HOF.

That's my opinion, but I don't sweat about it. It seems like baseball is always trying to hide the bad.

Pedro (and Mussina) should be in the HOF, no question.

Was Gern's BAC over .03? Did he also kill a girl?

[wildcard]

Please don't take this as a personal attack but...

people like OP are the reason why the baseball HOF voting is such a mess right now. There are SO MANY deserving candidates on the ballot. I count 15. Most of the great players of the last era are being denied for silly reasons.

I guess its a matter of perspective. To me the only reason that HOF voting is problematic is that so many players have been caught enhancing themselves chemically.

Other than that I think the voting is fine. Last year the voters did not see anyone that hadn't cheated worthy of getting voted in. That is keeping with a high standard. That is good for the people in the Hall and the fans as well IMO. Apparently most voters agreed.

A high standard is why I see Randy Johnson as the only player eligible that played at a very high level for a long career. That puts him in a class by himself as a player on the ballot.

I hear the plead for Pedro. I think it has merit. But to me he is not in Randy's class. Pedro should get in but his short career doesn't make him first ballot to me.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and that is mine.

[LoyalBirdFan]

Was Gern's BAC over .03? Did he also kill a girl?

Neither, he was hit by some old dude who shouldn't have been driving.

[weams]

Neither, he was hit by some old dude who shouldn't have been driving.

I've never heard of that happening to a ballplayer.

[POR]

A truly great player stays at that level for more than just 7 years.

I agree, he was the most dominant pitcher during that time. But he needed to stay at a high level to be considered a truly great all time player... he was an average 3.50-4.00 ERA type of pitcher outside of that dominate period.

Pedro had 13 years in a row (1993 to 2005) where his FIP was below 4.00 and only once where it was above 3.58. This was during the steroid era.

Pedro's season in 1999 is considered the best season by any pitcher in the last 50 years. Pedro's season 2000 is considered the second season by a pitcher in the last 50 years.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/11545189/mlb-top-20-pitcher-seasons-50-years

Pedro's 7 year peak is considered the best peak by any pitcher in baseball history.

http://www.billjamesonline.com/article1177/

Pedro's career was pretty much cut short by injuries. He was having another good year in 2006 when he started to struggle in the middle of the season. He had Tommy John surgery after the season and only made 34 more appearances after that.

When you look at hall of fame pitchers I think you would be surprised how few meet your criteria. Greg Maddox won 355 games and got into the hall last year on the first ballot with 97.2% of the vote. However, he won 100 games from 2003 on when he was a league average starting pitcher.

[El Gordo]

Pedro's 219 wins in not a first ballot choice for me.

Biggio's 3060 hits would be ahead on Pedro for me. But Randy is in a class by himself. I'd be happy if he was the only player voted in.

This is a joke as if wins were the major factor. I guess they should kick that Koufax guy out he only had 165 wins. You have to put Piazza in along with Biggio, Bagwell, and of course both Pedro and Johnson. I'd vote for Mussina as well. His numbers are similar to Palmer's pitching during the, steroid era in the AL east, for a mostly poor team.

[Can_of_corn]

This is a joke as if wins were the major factor. I guess they should kick that Koufax guy out he only had 165 wins. You have to put Piazza in along with Biggio, Bagwell, and of course both Pedro and Johnson. I'd vote for Mussina as well. His numbers are similar to Palmer's pitching during the, steroid era in the AL east, for a mostly poor team.

Poor team? His teams played to a .550 mark. The only truly bad team he played for was in his rookie year.

[25 Nuggets]

I don't like the ten year rule either. Suppose Gern Blandsten, a 21 year old SS for the 2037 San Antonio Orioles, hits .435 and steals 178 bases and then dies in a traffic accident. From a baseball perspective, this story should be in the HOF.

That's essentially what happened with Addie Joss. He played nine seasons for the Cleveland Naps as a pitcher and happens to have the second lowest ERA among qualifiers in MLB history (1.89) as well as the lowest WHIP (0.968).

Joss continued to report arm trouble in early 1911, although he expected to be able to pitch by May after some rest. On April 3, however, before an exhibition game in Chattanooga, Tennessee, he fainted on the field while talking to his friend, Chattanooga shortstop Rudy Hulswitt. His condition continued to worsen and Joss returned to Toledo, where his personal physician, Dr. George Chapman, diagnosed an attack of pleurisy. In the early morning hours of April 14, two days after his 31st birthday (which fell on opening day), Joss died suddenly of tubercular meningitis. Later that day, devastated teammates spoke highly of Addie: "No better man ever lived than Addie," said George Stovall, and Napoleon Lajoie added, "In Joss's death, baseball loses one of the best pitchers and men that has ever been identified with the game."

In 1978 the Veterans Committee of the Baseball Hall of Fame sidestepped the minimum ten seasons played rule and elected Joss to the Hall of Fame, 67 years after his untimely death.

So it could happen again.

[wildcard]

This is a joke as if wins were the major factor. I guess they should kick that Koufax guy out he only had 165 wins. You have to put Piazza in along with Biggio, Bagwell, and of course both Pedro and Johnson. I'd vote for Mussina as well. His numbers are similar to Palmer's pitching during the, steroid era in the AL east, for a mostly poor team.

Wins have been a major factor for as long as there has been a HOF.

[atomic]

82 career WAR and 270 wins he should be in. They need to take this out of the writers hands and give it to managers and GMs. Writers don't have a clue.

[atomic]

Pedro had 13 years in a row (1993 to 2005) where his FIP was below 4.00 and only once where it was above 3.58. This was during the steroid era.

Pedro's season in 1999 is considered the best season by any pitcher in the last 50 years. Pedro's season 2000 is considered the second season by a pitcher in the last 50 years.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/11545189/mlb-top-20-pitcher-seasons-50-years

Pedro's 7 year peak is considered the best peak by any pitcher in baseball history.

http://www.billjamesonline.com/article1177/

Pedro's career was pretty much cut short by injuries. He was having another good year in 2006 when he started to struggle in the middle of the season. He had Tommy John surgery after the season and only made 34 more appearances after that.

When you look at hall of fame pitchers I think you would be surprised how few meet your criteria. Greg Maddox won 355 games and got into the hall last year on the first ballot with 97.2% of the vote. However, he won 100 games from 2003 on when he was a league average starting pitcher.

FIP is a meaningless stat.

[El Gordo]

Wins have been a major factor for as long as there has been a HOF.

They weren't with Koufax and they won't be from now on; nobody will ever win 300 games again the way the game is played now. Pedro was probably the best pitcher of his era and to not vote him in is absurd.