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Just one word to all the posters who expressed a preference for Caleb over Wieters

mdbdotcom

By mdbdotcom
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mdbdotcom Hangout Grand Counsel

mdbdotcom

Posted
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However, I can't use that word here.

This is not a put down of Joseph, but, seriously, I am so glad Matt is back. I expect that, very soon, he will be every starter's personal catcher. I'm glad we have a few more months to enjoy him in an O's uni.

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TonySoprano Hangout Grand Counsel

TonySoprano

Posted
Posted
However, I can't use that word here.

This is not a put down of Joseph, but, seriously, I am so glad Matt is back. I expect that, very soon, he will be every starter's personal catcher. I'm glad we have a few more months to enjoy him in an O's uni.

Enjoy Matt while you can.
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Chavez Ravine Hangout Grand Counsel

Chavez Ravine

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It's been a few games, we will see.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah, it is not easy coming back from that type of injury; I am sure there will be some ugly stretches. I wouldn't be surprised if he has a career year next year if he stays healthy (probably for some other team). That said, I think it is easy to undervalue what an even diminished above average to excellent all around catcher does for a team.

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zweem Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

zweem

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I admit that he looks great-----but---

Let's ignore the fatigue factor for Joseph---he has been run very hard.

Let's ignore the money factors--how many Juseph salaries equal 1 Wieters???

Let's ignore the framing comparison---Wieters is very tall and causes the ump to set up higher.

Small sample size and salary drive.

Money factor to explode next year.

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BohKnowsBmore Hangout Grand Counsel

BohKnowsBmore

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It's been a few games, we will see.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Except Matt's entire career up to this point and his pedigree would suggest he is a better option than Caleb. After the hot start, Joseph is now down to a .697 OPS on the season, which isn't bad for a catcher, but his MLB career OPS is now .647, almost a whole 100 points lower than Matt's .744 number. Small sample size would be a legitimate concern here, except for the fact that we have a much larger sample (2,730 PA for Matt and 432 for Caleb) that would indicate that Matt is a much better option as well.

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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I admit that he looks great-----but---

Let's ignore the fatigue factor for Joseph---he has been run very hard.

Let's ignore the money factors--how many Juseph salaries equal 1 Wieters???

Let's ignore the framing comparison---Wieters is very tall and causes the ump to set up higher.

Small sample size and salary drive.

Money factor to explode next year.

Wieters was run harder for years (86% in 2013), then Caleb has been for a couple months (43 of 55 in the cool months 78%).

Wieters is better at throwing, grabbing foul tips and blocking pitches.

Salary drive is nonsense.

Who's talking about next year?

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BohKnowsBmore Hangout Grand Counsel

BohKnowsBmore

Posted
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I admit that he looks great-----but---

Let's ignore the fatigue factor for Joseph---he has been run very hard.

Let's ignore the money factors--how many Juseph salaries equal 1 Wieters???

Let's ignore the framing comparison---Wieters is very tall and causes the ump to set up higher.

Small sample size and salary drive.

Money factor to explode next year.

Matt has been run very hard in the past as well, if you are going to handicap Joseph's performance to this point, then you will have to do the same for Wieters's career numbers.

Regarding money, that's sort of a moot point as far as this season is concerned. We will pay Wieters and Joseph, so really this comparison should be about what they can give the team. Even if you had non-tendered Wiet (at the expense of the comp pick we will almost undoubtedly receive if he leaves in FA), then we would have Joseph backed up by what? Lavarnway?

Framing is an inexact science. I saw Wieters frame a few a couple of pitches excellently since he has been back (maybe its something he has given more mind to), but this is anecdotal and hard for me to support. Also, Wieters controls the running game better. Caleb had some initial success throwing out runners last season (an eye-popping 40% CS rate), but has come back to earth a bit with 24% this season. Wieters consistently threw out runners in the '30s 2010 - 2013. Last season his number was 8% but that was only in 12 attempts in a mere 194 innings. Over their careers, Wiet allows a steal once per 19.2 innings, while Joseph is good at one per 18.2, but I would guess his true talent is a bit lower (that number is driven by 2014). This is all not including the constant discussion from those within the game counting Wieters among the best at the position.

I addressed SSS in my reply to Rene88:

Except Matt's entire career up to this point and his pedigree would suggest he is a better option than Caleb. After the hot start, Joseph is now down to a .697 OPS on the season, which isn't bad for a catcher, but his MLB career OPS is now .647, almost a whole 100 points lower than Matt's .744 number. Small sample size would be a legitimate concern here, except for the fact that we have a much larger sample (2,730 PA for Matt and 432 for Caleb) that would indicate that Matt is a much better option as well.

The money is a moot point as far as this season goes. Who do you think gives this team a better chance to win this season? Also, Matt is a multi-time all star in the last year of team control, while Joseph is in his second year of ML service. I find it hard to hold Matt's salary against him in this comparison, especially considering he is still on his initial 6 years of service time. Had Caleb accomplished something similar to this point, he would be compensated similarly.

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BohKnowsBmore Hangout Grand Counsel

BohKnowsBmore

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Wieters was run harder for years (86% in 2013), then Caleb has been for a couple months (43 of 55 in the cool months 78%).

Wieters is better at throwing, grabbing foul tips and blocking pitches.

Salary drive is nonsense.

Who's talking about next year?

You beat me to it, and in a far more concise manner.

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scOtt Hangout Grand Counsel

scOtt

Posted
Posted
However, I can't use that word here.

This is not a put down of Joseph, but, seriously, I am so glad Matt is back. I expect that, very soon, he will be every starter's personal catcher. I'm glad we have a few more months to enjoy him in an O's uni.

Piece of work. mdbdotcom

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