Just one word to all the posters who expressed a preference for Caleb over Wieters

[MdSooner]

.

Regarding money, that's sort of a moot point as far as this season is concerned. We will pay Wieters and Joseph, so really this comparison should be about what they can give the team. Even if you had non-tendered Wiet (at the expense of the comp pick we will almost undoubtedly receive if he leaves in FA), then we would have Joseph backed up by what? Lavarnway?

Didn't we DFA Lavarnway? The back up next year will be Clevenger.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Didn't we DFA Lavarnway? The back up next year will be Clevenger.

Right, they've apparently done a lot of work with Clevenger's defense and the organization has been reluctant to let him go. Joseph/Clevenger should be a productive and efficient combo next year.

[BohKnowsBmore]

Didn't we DFA Lavarnway? The back up next year will be Clevenger.

Well we're talking about this year, right? Clev's defense is shaky. Further, can you honestly tell me that non-tendering Wieters for a penciled in rotation of Joseph/Clevenger would be looked at as DD being interested in winning? Also, if we were able to stash Clev in the minors, why not? Wieters gives you a known quantity and at $10 to $15M for a one year deal, it was clearly the right move, especially as it does not preclude us from playing Joseph as they are catchers.

Finally, if we have an injury, we still have Clevenger who can come back up. If we jettisoned Wieters, then an injury to Joseph/Clev would be backfilled by what exactly? That's why I think the notion of cutting a Young or someone similar in favor of Reimold is silly. The likely/possible upgrade does not make up for the deliberate depletion of depth.

[BohKnowsBmore]

Right, they've apparently done a lot of work with Clevenger's defense and the organization has been reluctant to let him go. Joseph/Clevenger should be a productive and efficient combo next year.

They very well may be, and given our options, I am comfortable with that for now. That all said, though, I feel like Wieters/Joseph and Clev in reserve is a far superior option going into a season than Joseph/Celv and ??? in reserve. Especially considering that this season cost us $10 - $15M for a single year (thus low risk) deal for an AS catcher in his prime, while next year would necessitate a 5+ year deal at around $18M or 20M AAV. Thus, the discussion of what makes sense this year and next year has to take that huge difference into account.

Also, of course the team would want to avoid parting ways with Clev if they can avoid it. There is nothing really pressuring them to part ways with him (what they have to give or sacrifice to keep him is negligible), while he provides a solid piece/depth. Also, there is likely something to be said (albeit nearly impossible to quantify) for having AAA reserves that the guys on the ML squad are familiar with or have some experience playing with.

[Can_of_corn]

Maybe it was Buck just being Buck but he said Wieters was in the best shape he's ever seen him in. Hmmmm.

Or..maybe..you could have a highly competitive person put into a year-long rehab situation.

I fully expect players to be in top condition after that.

[Can_of_corn]

For the record it is still way too early to get a good gauge on what type of player he will be for the rest of the season.

[Frobby]

I'm happy to have Wieters back, and I'm happy to have Joseph as his back-up. It should be a great combo.

[eddie83]

If Wieters leaves I think the more he will be appreciated. GG catchers with 20-25 HR pop don't grow on trees.

[CA-ORIOLE]

They very well may be, and given our options, I am comfortable with that for now. That all said, though, I feel like Wieters/Joseph and Clev in reserve is a far superior option going into a season than Joseph/Celv and ??? in reserve. Especially considering that this season cost us $10 - $15M for a single year (thus low risk) deal for an AS catcher in his prime, while next year would necessitate a 5+ year deal at around $18M or 20M AAV. Thus, the discussion of what makes sense this year and next year has to take that huge difference into account.

Also, of course the team would want to avoid parting ways with Clev if they can avoid it. There is nothing really pressuring them to part ways with him (what they have to give or sacrifice to keep him is negligible), while he provides a solid piece/depth. Also, there is likely something to be said (albeit nearly impossible to quantify) for having AAA reserves that the guys on the ML squad are familiar with or have some experience playing with.

I'm not really sure what you're getting at here, but I had no issue arbing Wieters this year if that's what it is.

[mdbdotcom]

I'm happy to have Wieters back, and I'm happy to have Joseph as his back-up. It should be a great combo.

Exactly.

[BohKnowsBmore]

I'm not really sure what you're getting at here, but I had no issue arbing Wieters this year if that's what it is.

Your reply was to a post by MdSooner in which he wrote:

Didn't we DFA Lavarnway? The back up next year will be Clevenger.

Which was a reply to my post:

Regarding money, that's sort of a moot point as far as this season is concerned. We will pay Wieters and Joseph, so really this comparison should be about what they can give the team. Even if you had non-tendered Wiet (at the expense of the comp pick we will almost undoubtedly receive if he leaves in FA), then we would have Joseph backed up by what? Lavarnway?

My apologies for misinterpreting your position or responding to a path of discussion that was not occurring.

Overall, my point was that any analysis at this point should be with regard to on-field production as Wiet is on a one-year deal and CJ is on a minimum contract. There is no further adjustment that can really be made with respect to these numbers. Clev is a fine backup and may be a serviceable (or better) part of a rotation in the absence of Matt (likely when he becomes too expensive next offseason). Upon further reading, it seems like we do not disagreement about either of these points. Rather, the quote tree was somewhat misleading from my POV.

[BohKnowsBmore]

I'm happy to have Wieters back, and I'm happy to have Joseph as his back-up. It should be a great combo.

Exactly.

Yep. Of all the Matt vs. Caleb talk that has been held here, catcher is one position where having multiple serviceable options isn't really redundant due to the wear-and-tear of the position.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Your reply was to a post by MdSooner in which he wrote:

Which was a reply to my post:

My apologies for misinterpreting your position or responding to a path of discussion that was not occurring.

Overall, my point was that any analysis at this point should be with regard to on-field production as Wiet is on a one-year deal and CJ is on a minimum contract. There is no further adjustment that can really be made with respect to these numbers. Clev is a fine backup and may be a serviceable (or better) part of a rotation in the absence of Matt (likely when he becomes too expensive next offseason). Upon further reading, it seems like we do not disagreement about either of these points. Rather, the quote tree was somewhat misleading from my POV.

Ok, No worries.

[sportsfan8703]

It's great to have weiters back but I can't say anything negative about Joseph. The guy was a 26 year old positionless hitter at Bowie and turned himself into a above average MLB catcher. I expect Joseph's bat to come back a bit with better match ups and more days off.

[mdbdotcom]

It's great to have weiters back but I can't say anything negative about Joseph. The guy was a 26 year old positionless hitter at Bowie and turned himself into a above average MLB catcher. I expect Joseph's bat to come back a bit with better match ups and more days off.

Nothing negative about Caleb, for sure. He's done a great job that few thought he was capable of doing. I was addressing the people who have said that he has been better than better than Matt. Some have even suggested that Matt's return would hurt the team. I never agreed with that point of view, and the defensive side alone of Matt's return has been a breath of fresh air for the team. His offense has been fantastic, but I certainly don't expect it to stay at this level.

Now, I'm looking forward to seeing Schoop back on the field, before the All Star break. As with Caleb, Flaherty (when healthy) has done a very good job filling in, but it will be great to see the team on the field that was anticipated being there in the pre-season. I'm just hoping the hole we're in is not too deep.