The "other side" to how AM handled this offseason

[Sports Guy]

YOU did.

You said that it isn't worth waiting into the season, even if we would get more.

Therefore, we would be getting less by trading now, under that scenario.

You don't know you will get more at this point.

Read what MM asked.

He said if that is what happened, would I complain.

Obviously that would be great but it is unlikely that will be the case...Possible? Yes...Likely? No.

[BaltimoreTerp]

And the moves were there to be made.

I bet if AM traded BRob and Payton for Gallagher, Ceda, EPat, Veal and Cedeno, you would be the first one applauding him and saying how great he is.

1) That wasn't offered, as far as anyone outside either front office knows.

2) That would be a good deal.

3) That would go a long way to making your whole argument incorrect, so I don't know why you are attempting to use it as a defense, outside a clumsy attempt at a personal attack.

[OSfanfromCT]

What dream is there? Cintron is available now, Vargas is available now. You can't tell me that those guys aren't better than Fahey/Hernandez or Trachsel, yet we refuse to upgrade? Why?

I completely agree with this. LH should not be our starting SS, and Trachsel should retire, but DT loves him, so I think AM did that as a favor to his manager.

[Sports Guy]

SG, I agree with most of what you're saying. Millar I think should be gone, and if not now, then definitely by the All-Star Break. Similar for Payton, especially since he was rumored in the BRob deals. But do we really know what exactly was being offered for Brob and Payton? Through all these discussions do we really know what exactly was offered for BRob? I might be inclined to hold out since he is under contract for two more years and try again at the All Star Break. However, besides BRob, the rest of the guys being discussed will return less than what they probably would garner at the AS break, when a competing team might be looking for a replacement for an injured guy down the stretch. At least that's what I'm hoping.

In any event, trading all these names besides Roberts really isn't THAT important to the rebuild other than that they are taking away possible roster sports to Moore among others. In the end, I'm not losing any sleep over the lack of movement b/c these guys will get a chance to play once the vets are moved, which will happen. It has to.

Well, the idea of taking away roster spots is important, don't you think?

We could get a guy like Murton and have him and Scott split time at DH and LF..Maybe even some first base.

Adding a cheap, young player to give us an 800-840 OPS for 400 at bats is pretty valuable to a team that lacks positional talent but we really have no where to play him now.

[BaltimoreTerp]

What dream is there? Cintron is available now, Vargas is available now. You can't tell me that those guys aren't better than Fahey/Hernandez or Trachsel, yet we refuse to upgrade? Why?

Because they aren't upgrades.

Hell, Vargas especially could end up blocking better players more then Trachsel because as a reclamation project he would likely get more chances.

[Sports Guy]

1) That wasn't offered, as far as anyone outside either front office knows.

Well, the 4 for 1 seems to have been offered....Not a stretch to think the CUbs would have dealt EPat for Payton to get it done.

3) That would go a long way to making your whole argument incorrect, so I don't know why you are attempting to use it as a defense, outside a clumsy attempt at a personal attack.

Well, obviously I would be arguing this point if AM had done this.

[El Gordo]

And the moves were there to be made.

I bet if AM traded BRob and Payton for Gallagher, Ceda, EPat, Veal and Cedeno, you would be the first one applauding him and saying how great he is.

Unless you can name these moves and back them up with creditable sources, then everything you are saying is just your usual bs speculation.

[Sports Guy]

Because they aren't upgrades.Hell, Vargas especially could end up blocking better players more then Trachsel because as a reclamation project he would likely get more chances.

LOL...Vargas is clearly an upgrade over Trax. To say otherwise is beyond foolish.

Cintron is also better than LH if his arm is healthy.

[Sports Guy]

Unless you can name these moves and back them up with creditable sources, then everything you are saying is just your usual bs speculation.

You think Zrebiac is blowing smoke about the Ceda, Veal, Gallagher and Cedeno for BRob deal?

[OSfanfromCT]

Well, the idea of taking away roster spots is important, don't you think?

We could get a guy like Murton and have him and Scott split time at DH and LF..Maybe even some first base.

Adding a cheap, young player to give us an 800-840 OPS for 400 at bats is pretty valuable to a team that lacks positional talent but we really have no where to play him now.

Not as important when guys still have options left and we are going to suck anyways. But having the flexibility to get a guy like Murton and have him produce would be very nice, but if he's so readily available now, wouldn't that most likely make him acquirable at a later date, maybe after we have moved some of the drudge?

[millartime15]

What dream is there? Cintron is available now, Vargas is available now. You can't tell me that those guys aren't better than Fahey/Hernandez or Trachsel, yet we refuse to upgrade. Why? Why can't we just release Gibbons? Why can't we eat 4 million of Payton's contract? We have 26 million saved from Tejada. It's not like this team is hurting in the money department. This team can be a whole lot better than it is now and much more enjoyable to watch, yet the Orioles are taking the lazy way out and using the perception that we are going to lose 100 games as an excuse to do just that.

This should prove all you AM lovers wrong and prove that he should have made more moves

Plently of trades could have happened. Like a smaller deal for Callaspo, we could have had him.

This probably doesnt fit in, but I would have gotten a new manager. I dont think DT fits well with this club, because he loves the vets to much.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Well, the idea of taking away roster spots is important, don't you think?

We could get a guy like Murton and have him and Scott split time at DH and LF..Maybe even some first base.

Adding a cheap, young player to give us an 800-840 OPS for 400 at bats is pretty valuable to a team that lacks positional talent but we really have no where to play him now.

And how are we getting rid of these other players?

Nobody wants Payton, nobody will touch Huff, Mora or Gibbons, and there hasn't exactly been a desire for Millar.

Not to mention that, despite your psychic abilities, you have no idea whether or not MacPhail has been trying to trade these guys, and found no deals worth making.

[Sports Guy]

Not as important when guys still have options left and we are going to suck anyways. But having the flexibility to get a guy like Murton and have him produce would be very nice, but if he's so readily available now, wouldn't that most likely make him acquirable at a later date, maybe after we have moved some of the drudge?

Not if another team gets him first.

[Why Not?]

It seems like we know the 4 for 1 for BRob.

We know that other teams are either looking to deal guys or have dealt guys for little in return.

This isn't anything being dreamed up...This is WHAT HAS HAPPENED!

The players in the Roberts trade have always been rumor and speculation. We don't know what was discussed and we certainly don't know if there was an "offer."

The simple fact is that we don't know the intricacies of how any deals go down. This is not to say the Orioles are right or wrong, just that you don't know the details.

[Mackus]

I don't think you can give him anything less than an A+ when it comes to the Tejada and Bedard trades. Those were both great moves.

I also don't think you can give him anything less than an Incomplete at nicest and F at worst when it comes to getting rid of our dead weight. Its a bit ridiculous that we still have all of Mora, Huff, Gibbons, Millar, and Payton on the team. Of course the wildcard is wondering what market, if any, these guys had, but I'll never believe that we couldn't have shed at least one of these guys.

Bedard, Tejada, and Roberts were, by far, the most important thing of the offseason, and he handled those very well, IMO. Maybe he didn't move Roberts, but he certainly didn't turn down any "can't miss" packages for him.

The rest, he clearly gets an incomplete at best.

The big 3 were about 75% of the grade, and he gets a A from me on that front. The other 25% of the roster he gets an F, so probably about a B to B+ overall if you're keeping score.

I'm happy with what he's done on the whole for this offseason. Hopefully he can continue to get a good package for Roberts and also get rid of some of our other dead weight.