The "other side" to how AM handled this offseason

[Sports Guy]

Turning this franchise around is like turning a big ship around. It takes a while.

Its taking a lot longer than it should have.

[Runs2the1Show]

Usually I agree with what your saying, but not so much this time. While you do make some valid points, what all of us sometimes tend to forget is that the rebuild doesn't need to take place in one year. It is impossible. MacPhail isn't building this team for next year, he is building it for 3-4 years down the road. So what if he didn't pull the trigger on the Robert's deal? How do we know it was a good deal? No one actually knows who was involved. If anything, MacPhail has showed in the two trades he has made that he is capable of fetching solid prospects who are capable of helping us long term. The man has time to build the team and while it is depressing to see Mora and Payton and whoever else take the field, just remember it wont be for long. Soon it will be Rowell and shortstop of the future and whoever else.

[JTrea81]

I think it should be noted....again....that the rebuilding process isn't going to happen in one year. The concensus seems to be we are shooting for 2010 to hopefully become seriously competitive in the AL east.

If they aren't traded, Payton and Millar are gone after this year. Gibbons, Huff, and Mora are gone after 2009.

We have some good players in the MiL who will hopefully develop during the next 2 years, and most certainly, we will also add key players via free agency and trades during this time frame.

By 2010, I'm sure we will see a vastly different, and much better, team on the field. I really don't understand the desire of many to rush the rebuilding process. IMO, it appears to be right on schedule.

It's putting a product on the field now. They have an opportunity to put an exciting team on the field, yet it seems we are using the excuse that we are going to stink anyway to not make anymore moves and deem guys like Brandon Fahey and Luis Hernandez acceptable solutions. These guys weren't acceptable solutions for when we were trying to reach .500 so why all of a sudden are they now? Hoping Gibbons is going to produce so we can trade him is a faulty idea at best. They've seen him this spring. Unless he's going to roid up again he's basically as useful to the team as Albert Belle was after his injury. Payton shouldn't be on the team because he's just going to take away playing time from Jones and Scott and Trembley will use him as a crutch. Roberson could fill Payton's job quite nicely and wouldn't complain for playing time as much or if at all. There is no reason why Moore shouldn't make this team. He's proven he's a useful player. And once again Kevin Millar is going to be our 1st baseman, when there are other solutions out there such as Moore, but not only is he going to be our 1st baseman, but our cleanup hitter as well. There are other choices yet he's the safe choice because you know you'll get a mediocre performance.

That pretty much sums it up. The Orioles have given up on this season and taken the lazy way out. The media has said we are going to lose 100 games and we aren't doing a thing to try to prove them wrong.

[JTrea81]

Its taking a lot longer than it should have.

I agree with this 100%. We could compete in 2009 if MacPhail makes the right moves.

[clarence]

I think us being terrible at shortstop for a season is being blown out of proportion. LH has the reputation of being a better than average fielder and that is what we need at the position with our pitching staff, imo. Of course he or Fahey aren't long-term solutions but I'm certain the front office is looking at every option that doesn't involve trading pitching.

My disappointment is that more teams weren't interested in BRob. I don't blame the Cubs for not upping their offer and I don't blame AM for not making a deal. We need teams competing for his services and until that happens he probably remains an Oriole.

The issue of getting rid of Millar, Huff, Payton, and Gibbons is pretty much out of AM's control. He can't help the fact that these guys were given ridiculous deals that make them unmovable. He isn't responsible for us having no minor league position talent to replace them. A lot of people are worried about wins and losses this season when I think the front office is going to be just as aware of the service clock running on a lot of our young players. They aren't going to waste a year early this season, but I think we will see some real changes after the break when guys won't see a year of service wasted. Down the road, keeping the Millars and Paytons around for over half a season could turn into a shrewd move. But, I will be extremely happy when all of those guys are wearing different uniforms.

[Runs2the1Show]

It's putting a product on the field now. They have an opportunity to put an exciting team on the field, yet it seems we are using the excuse that we are going to stink anyway to not make anymore moves and deem guys like Brandon Fahey and Luis Hernandez acceptable solutions. These guys weren't acceptable solutions for when we were trying to reach .500 so why all of a sudden are they now? Hoping Gibbons is going to produce so we can trade him is a faulty idea at best. They've seen him this spring. Unless he's going to roid up again he's basically as useful to the team as Albert Belle was after his injury. Payton shouldn't be on the team because he's just going to take away playing time from Jones and Scott and Trembley will use him as a crutch. Roberson could fill Payton's job quite nicely and wouldn't complain for playing time as much or if at all. There is no reason why Moore shouldn't make this team. He's proven he's a useful player. And once again Kevin Millar is going to be our 1st baseman, when there are other solutions out there such as Moore, but not only is he going to be our 1st baseman, but our cleanup hitter as well. There are other choices yet he's the safe choice because you know you'll get a mediocre performance.

That pretty much sums it up. The Orioles have given up on this season and taken the lazy way out. The media has said we are going to lose 100 games and we aren't doing a thing to try to prove them wrong.

The Nationals were predicted to have an 100 loss season last year. They fielded scrubby pitchers and players for parts of the year. But you saw that they made trades for Pena and then what they did this offseason in acquiring their new outfield. The point is, no matter what, the team is going to compete with who we have out there. MAnny Acta got manager of the year considerations because of what he did last year. Jsut because the media thinks we will lsoe 100 games, doesn't mean we will. It serves as motivation to the players. Besides, 100 losses is REALLY hard to do, and I do not believe we are THAT bad.

[JTrea81]

He isn't responsible for us having no minor league position talent to replace them.

This is the problem, we do have guys to replace them, but they aren't going to get a shot because we refuse to eat contracts and get the dreck out of their roster spots.

[Sports Guy]

Usually I agree with what your saying, but not so much this time. While you do make some valid points, what all of us sometimes tend to forget is that the rebuild doesn't need to take place in one year. It is impossible. MacPhail isn't building this team for next year, he is building it for 3-4 years down the road. So what if he didn't pull the trigger on the Robert's deal? How do we know it was a good deal? No one actually knows who was involved. If anything, MacPhail has showed in the two trades he has made that he is capable of fetching solid prospects who are capable of helping us long term. The man has time to build the team and while it is depressing to see Mora and Payton and whoever else take the field, just remember it wont be for long. Soon it will be Rowell and shortstop of the future and whoever else.

I am sorry but this is just bs.

If the right deals are there and the right players are out there for the taking, you pull the damn trigger!

This idea that it all doesn't have to happen at once is wrong.

If the offers aren't there, then I agree with you. If the players weren't there for the taking, then I would agree with you.

But you have to strike while the iron is hot and it is on fire right now. You have to make deals when they make sense.

The Orioles have dropped the ball on the BRob/Payton to the Cubs stuff.

There was a lot of Millar to the Rangers talk before...Maybe we could have had Arias for him?

The problem with how AM handled things is he had to wait to see how other moves turned out...For example, he thought he would get Cedeno...That doesn't look like that is happening so now we are stuck with LH it seems.

Now, I for one don't think the BRob stuff is done yet...I think there is still a chance it will happen.

[El Gordo]

This has been brought up in other threads but I felt it needed its own thread.

There are 2 sides to this offseason...The one side is that we are headed in a very good direction. This team is getting pitching depth, added a great young CFer and rid ourselves of a lot of salary.

The "other side" to this offseason is AN took too long to get things done and because of it, he may have hurt our chances of making other moves.

Right now, we have a pathetic SS...We have a log jam at Corner OFer/Corner IFer/DH of similar guys.

Meanwhile, there are a lot of guys out there to be had.

Felipe Lopez was bad last year but he has had some solid years in the past and certainly has more upside than LH.

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1255871&posted=1#post1255871

In that thread, 2 links are provided...One link talks about how the Cubs are looking to deal Murton...Another link talks about Justin Huber being dealt for a PTBNL.

These are the types of guys we should have on our team...Not Millar(i don't have a big issue with Millar but still would rather have younger and more upside), Gibbons, Redman, Payton, Mora and Huff....We needed to get rid of some of these guys.

Instead, we have all of them and we are going to miss out on oppurtunities to make small deals to add these types of guys because we have no where to put them.

Again, AM did some very good things this offseason but he failed in others.

You' re in the wring business, you shouldn't be selling jewelry, you should be running a delicatessen, you can be counted on for such a healthy portion of baloney.

[Moose Milligan]

Its taking a lot longer than it should have.

Yeah, but can you call the last 10 years rebuilding? I mean, it's been pretty pathetic...I'd call it a half ass-ed attempt at BEST...I forgot who wrote it, but it was like we always were kidding ourselves that if we added a few vets, we could compete.

I know you'll agree that this offseason has embarked us on a proper rebuilding process, not that bastardized version that has been occurring for the past 10 years.

IMO, the rebuild started in the offseason of 07-08...let's see how long it takes.

[Why Not?]

This is the problem, we do have guys to replace them, but they aren't going to get a shot because we refuse to eat contracts and get the dreck out of their roster spots.

We don't have anyone ready to step in, like, right now.

[Sports Guy]

Yeah, but can you call the last 10 years rebuilding? I mean, it's been pretty pathetic...I'd call it a half ass-ed attempt at BEST...I forgot who wrote it, but it was like we always were kidding ourselves that if we added a few vets, we could compete.

I know you'll agree that this offseason has embarked us on a proper rebuilding process, not that bastardized version that has been occurring for the past 10 years.

IMO, the rebuild started in the offseason of 07-08...let's see how long it takes.

We have never rebuilt until this past offseason.

But that has nothing to do with anything.

[Runs2the1Show]

I am sorry but this is just bs.

If the right deals are there and the right players are out there for the taking, you pull the damn trigger!

This idea that it all doesn't have to happen at once is wrong.

If the offers aren't there, then I agree with you. If the players weren't there for the taking, then I would agree with you.

But you have to strike while the iron is hot and it is on fire right now. You have to make deals when they make sense.

The Orioles have dropped the ball on the BRob/Payton to the Cubs stuff.

There was a lot of Millar to the Rangers talk before...Maybe we could have had Arias for him?

The problem with how AM handled things is he had to wait to see how other moves turned out...For example, he thought he would get Cedeno...That doesn't look like that is happening so now we are stuck with LH it seems.

Now, I for one don't think the BRob stuff is done yet...I think there is still a chance it will happen.

Most of the successful rebuilds take a couple years. The tigers took about 4, the Brewers, assuming they make the playoffs this year, took 4, the atheletics usually take 2-3.

AM was put in a bad situation of the terrible contracts given out before he took the job. We can't blame him for not dealing these guys when he didn't sign them. ANd if we draft Beckham, will it have been so bad that we didn't trade for a shortstop?

What makes me the most mad is that we keep makinge excuses for DCab. He is a guy who could be traded for a good piece or two yet we don't capitalize on that. That is a guy who could be dealt with some value.

[Sports Guy]

If the Cubs put Pie, Gallagher and Cedeno on the table, would all of you have made that trade?

What is funny is how many of you keep saying the rebuild didn't have to happen overnight yet you would trade any of these guys for the right offer in a heartbeat.

So basically, the rebuild doesn't have to happen overnight unless some team is willing to drastically overpay for our players and we have to give up nothing to get their guys.

[Moose Milligan]

Turning this franchise around is like turning a big ship around. It takes a while.

Its taking a lot longer than it should have.

We have never rebuilt until this past offseason.

But that has nothing to do with anything.

If you're stating that the rebuild started this past offseason, then what are you griping about when you say "it's taking a lot longer than it should have."

Do you mean that it's taken too long for us to get this process started, or something else?