Would you fire Duquette?

[weams]

Buck was hired before Duquette.

Andy tried to hire Eric Wedge instead of Buck. Peter Angelos overrode him.

[Il BuonO]

Buck was hired before Duquette.

So??? McPhail didn't want him. Buck was Angelos' guy.

[Aristotelian]

I would guess that the directive to control costs and not to resign Cruz or Markakis came more from the ownership than the baseball operations. Angelos cannot (or should not) fire Duquette for implementing his own will. Within the obvious budgetary constraints, Duquette has done well.

He had an amazing run last year (Cruz, Norris, Pearce, moving Britton to close, Webb, Delmon, calling up Joseph) while missing on Ubaldo. Can't win 'em all. See what he does next year.

I think the team will be in a different position next year and you will see a different strategy.

[25 Nuggets]

And he's just so smug. He just comes across like some super self important guy who pushes papers in a cozy office. We shouldn't have fired Mcphail.

I don't want to single you out winkies, because you may not have been part of the "fire MacPhail" contingent, but it was pretty strong back then. Case in point - this was from July 2011, right before the team hired Buck Showalter, regarding the lack of international signings:

Orioles Hangout Posters Respond To Andy MacPhail

Quote from MacPhail: ?Yeah and we are not excluding ourselves from it. We are excluding ourselves from a very small percentage of that 33 percent. I haven't done the study, but you ought to do the study of how many of those $4 or $5 million dollar players, how are they doing??

Response from Poster skanar: ?This quote annoys the heck out of me. This study isn't that hard. We're talking a three-week job for a statistics grad student once you've got the data. If they recognize that running the numbers is a good idea, why not DO IT??

Quote from MacPhail: "It's me. I am just not big on throwing $4 or $5 million at a guy that has just been at tryout camps that you haven't had a chance to see in a competitive environment."

Response from Poster Burg: ?But we'll give 15+ million to Vlad and D. Lee? That's not a risk? Also, how about actually trying to see them in a competitive environment??

Response from Poster Stotle: ?The second most expensive player the Rangers signed was actually in last year's Under Armour All-America game at Wrigley, playing against the top HS talent in last year's class (as a then 15 yr old). Stood out there for his projectability and raw power.?

Response from Poster TGO: ?MacPhail's argument about not spending 4M is a straw man. No one is asking him to necessarily spend 4M on one player. But hello, the first time we ever spent six figures was last year, for a $300k bonus! That is our franchise record: $300,000. And we've only done it once. You don't want to spend $4M on one guy, fine. Sign 18 guys for $200k a piece this year and one for $400k and I won't have a negative thing to say.?

Response from Poster Frobby: ?The top 30 signing bonuses in 2010 all were $475 k or more. http://www.baseballamerica.com/today...1/2611344.html

In 2010, the Rays spent $1.73 mm internationally, the Sox spent $1.64 mm, the Orioles spent $1.18 mm. The Yankees ($5.27 mm) and Jays ($4.18 mm) were much higher. http://www.baseballamerica.com/today...1/2611345.html The O?s spent more in the Rule 4 draft than the Rays (by $2 mm) and the Yankees (by $2.5 mm). http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/...tures-2008-10/

The Orioles have the lowest number of international prospects in their organizational top 30 of any team in the majors (3 of their top 30). http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/...system-health/ ?

Response from Poster allstar1579: ?My problem is it's a much better allocation of that money to take a gamble on signing 10-15 guys to 300-500k contracts than to pay an aging RP who isn't going to make us a contender, and will be lucky to help us win 2 more games than having say, Steve Johnson in the pen. Apparently it's better for the future of this team to sign an aging RP that would put up similar numbers to any one of a dozen players from AA/AAA we already have, to a $6m+ per year contract than it is to invest $6m each year in international signings. No one is saying to go spend $6m on one guy and call it a day. A lot of these prospects sign in the low 6 figures, and even more in the tens of thousands, but he would know that if it wasn't completely ignoring that avenue of talent acquisition. Even if you only hit on one per year, and got a top 100 prospect once per 15-20 kids you signed each year. That's another top 100 prospect some other team like TOR or the NYY are going to be using against us for at least 6 years.

It's just inexcusable to put your head in the sand and make excuses as to why you won't go near international signings when other teams in your division are developing these same players and using them to perform better than you are because you don't feel like it's worth the effort. He wants proof that he should be signing them??

Quote from MacPhail: "Or player development guys. So if an infield rover, for example, goes over to the Dominican, we will make sure he sees some guys we are looking at that are middle infielders. If the pitching rover goes over, we will make sure he sees some arms. If (hitting instructor) Denny Walling goes over, we look at some bats.Where I am really headed with this is we just seem to be more American-centric with our cross-checking."

Response from Poster BrunoCherrytown: ?A not-so blatant admission that he understocks the international department staff.?

Response from Poster MrOrange82: ?While MacPhail is spending an average amount of money there (the DR), he's also saying that he's dedicating less in the way of scouting resources and "cross checking" to that part of the world, so whatever amount of money being spent stands a fair chance of being spent less intelligently than other teams that apply closer scrutiny to the players available and the players they're bringing in.?

Quote from MacPhail: ?Yeah. What we did with Sano is we valued him where we thought he'd go in the draft and made an offer commensurate with that, and he did better. Not that we were lowballing him, but he signed for more than our final offer by a good margin. We had the advantage of having Sano in our camp playing games. So we went out and made a first-round type of offer, but where we would have thought he'd go in the first round. He said, 'I can do better,' and he did it."

Response from Poster LookitsPuck: ?Sano signed for $3.15 million. I'd like to know what our offer was. The Twins got him. Clearly $3 million isn't $4 million or more. They've seen him in camp. They offered first-round type of offer..what does that mean? Clearly not high level first-round money. So what was it? Is this just posturing??

Response from Poster Flosman: I think most on here are not characterizing what he said correctly. AM SAID HE WOULD HAVE GIVEN SANO 1ST ROUND MONEY!!!. That means he was offering seven figures but not Weiters or Manny money. That means the valued him highly and were in fact willing to pay. Being has though he is already playing part of his time at 3rd maybe MacPhail was right. As of last year there was one all star produced by the top 31 signings from this system and a couple of guys that might become regulars. But let's be honest there where more guys that became other older people than productive MLers in that group. MacPhail is making his bets down there and really we will not have any idea how he is doing for 2 or three more years at the earliest.?

Response from Poster: jabba72: ?The Sano negotiations came off sounding bad back when he signed with Minnesota. Sano signed for about $3M. Andy said our offer wasn?t close to that, so in truth he might not be honest about offering Sano 1st rd money.?

Response from Poster Can of Corn: ?There is a big difference however between slot for a top 5 or so pick, which is around where Baltimore picks every year, and the bottom of the round. I think the O's probably offered #30 pick slot money for Sano, which is going to be a lot lower then 3 million.?

Quote from MacPhail: ?If you want to put $5 million down on batting practice, have at it. Now, in three years, if I'm wrong and I see that's where you should be, then we'll be there. But I am going to need to see proof that I am wrong, that's all."

Response from Poster Stotle: ?God is this a bad argument. How many IFAs have received $5 million? Mr. MacPhail is using hyperbole to try and prove a point. He confesses to have not actually done or read any studies on seven figure investment in IFA. His entire interview was full of hyperbole and almost nothing of substance. You'd think the person in charge of making all of these investment decisions would need to resort to overstatement to try and prove a point. He should have some substance to back up his opinion, right? Especially considering it is flying in the face of what a bunch of other ML organizations are doing.

Carlos Martinez, STL, around $1.5 million

Miguel Sano, MIN, around $3 million

&

Ronald Guzman, TEX, around $3.5 million

Those 3 players have been my favorites going back to last July. If Guzman and Hernandez were given their "crazy" bonuses from Texas based on "batting practice" then why are there quotes from their scouts on each's ability to recognize pitches and differentiating between in-game power and BP power right now?

And I guess it must be true that it wasn't Guzman playing at the nationally televised Under Armour All-America Game and in the Dominican Prospect League -- some sort of body double maybe? -- since we know the guys getting multi-million dollar deals in Latin America only take batting practice and refuse to play in any organized games.

A two second search of the Baseball America prospect blog led me to full reports on all the top players:

?Though he doesn't do it in batting practice, Hernandez has a tendency to leak open with his front knee and open up his hips too early in games.?

?Unlike Elier Hernandez, Guzman is not a quick-twitch athlete. Scouts have questions about his bat speed, which is why he doesn't usually show pull power in games.?

?His game speed is slower, though, with below-average times going from home to first. Scouts are mixed on Becerra's bat. He has good size and strength, and some scouts consider him one of the best righthanded hitters available with good plate coverage and projectable power. Others say he's better in tryouts than game situations, where his swing tends to get long with an uphill stroke where he gets around the ball.?

?Lugo, a 16-year-old from Bani who trains with Victor Franco (known as Mula) and plays in the Dominican Prospect League, is one of the better hitters in Latin America.?

?The question most scouts have is how much Ruiz will hit in games. He can get into a groove in BP, but in games his stroke can get long and he pulls off the ball.?

Those are statements on each of the top 5 position prospects, according to Baseball America, that either directly comments on game action, or states that the player participates in the Dominican Prospect League. $5 million for batting practice, huh??

[LookitsPuck]

I would guess that the directive to control costs and not to resign Cruz or Markakis came more from the ownership than the baseball operations. Angelos cannot (or should not) fire Duquette for implementing his own will. Within the obvious budgetary constraints, Duquette has done well.

He had an amazing run last year (Cruz, Norris, Pearce, moving Britton to close, Webb, Delmon, calling up Joseph) while missing on Ubaldo. Can't win 'em all. See what he does next year.

I think the team will be in a different position next year and you will see a different strategy.

Was it Angelos that told Duquette to pay Ubaldo over $10m/year?

[Il BuonO]

uhhhhh..........

I don't know. Maybe Chris Davis, Wieters and Machado were big deals?

Yeah, you people stop with Wieters. McPhail was no asset in getting him signed. Again, Peter. I'll dig it up but I'm sure weams will verify that our head scout was fought at every turn.

[Bmorebirds24]

So??? McPhail didn't want him. Buck was Angelos' guy.

Ok and the thread is about Duquette he didn't bring in Buck.

Take the Orange glasses off and look at the disaster this team has become in the last 10 months.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LookitsPuck]

Andy tried to hire Eric Wedge instead of Buck. Peter Angelos overrode him.

I'm just saying we shouldn't be giving credit to Duquette for anything related to Showalter. If anything, I feel that there is lack of chemistry between the 2 of them, so I'm not convinced Duquette would have ever hired him.

[Spy Fox]

Davis, Machado, Hardy, Jones, Tillman, Chen, Wieters, Showalter is hard to compete against. Andy is looking better with each passing day.

There's no denying that MacPhail build the core of the team, and that he was better at trading than Duquette is. But there's also no denying that Duquette's decisions are part of what gave the O's their competitive life over the past few years.

For a couple years, Duquette practically had the Midas Touch. This year it's been basically the opposite. But he's not getting fired.

[winkies]

Yeah, you people stop with Wieters. McPhail was no asset in getting him signed. Again, Peter. I'll dig it up but I'm sure weams will verify that our head scout was fought at every turn.

Who drafted Wieters?

[weams]

Was it Angelos that told Duquette to pay Ubaldo over $10m/year?

Probably not. That was probably Dan Duquette's mistake.

[LookitsPuck]

There's no denying that MacPhail build the core of the team, and that he was better at trading than Duquette is. But there's also no denying that Duquette's decisions are part of what gave the O's their competitive life over the past few years.

For a couple years, Duquette practically had the Midas Touch. This year it's been basically the opposite. But he's not getting fired.

My issue with Duquette is that he's now had 4 years to revamp our player development process. And I'm not seeing any fruits of it. If anything I'm actually seeing huge red flags. I feel 100% that Duquette has screwed Gausman every step of the way.

[winkies]

There's no denying that MacPhail build the core of the team, and that he was better at trading than Duquette is. But there's also no denying that Duquette's decisions are part of what gave the O's their competitive life over the past few years.

For a couple years, Duquette practically had the Midas Touch. This year it's been basically the opposite. But he's not getting fired.

DD is probably going to let half of our best players walk after this season.

[Can_of_corn]

Who drafted Wieters?

The scouting director.

[weams]

Who drafted Wieters?

Anyone who picked before the Orioles. He fell in to our laps. And almost did not sign. In fact, Andy wanted to walk away at 11:44.