Has our competitive window closed???

[El Gordo]

This absolute lunacy. Enjoy your offseason.

Hey what's with the personal attacks? :smile11:

[El Gordo]

What moves can the franchise realistically make this off season that will help put us in the playoff hunt for 2016?

Signing Price or Greinke to head the rotation would. But will that happen? No.

Re-signing Davis would. But will that happen? Maybe.

Suppose we add a few nice pieces like Zobrist or Alex Gordon, or even Jason Heyward. Will that get us into the playoff hunt? Not if we don't have starting pitching.

The real issue with this team is the rotation. I don't see a way of addressing it. The best FA starters are too expensive. We will likely lose our best starter (Chen). We don't have prospects to trade for a solid starter.

So is it hyperbole? I don't think so. I don't see any way we can fix our awful rotation in a way that will get us into the playoff hunt. Call it hyperbole if you want...I just don't see a way of doing it. We can't outbid the big spenders. We don't have any minor league prospects that are healthy and big league ready. We don't have anything of value to trade. I don't think it's hyperbole, just the bitter reality of the situation.

It's hyperbole. The SP was bad last season but that is not the mean for them. They will not all pitch as poorly this season. It needs to be upgraded, but that can be done by adding depth, it isn't necessary to spend 30 M on Price or Greinke. A competitive team would be like HOU which won 86 G. We don't need to move mountains to go from 81 to 86 W.

[Frobby]

Honestly the Orioles may have scored more runs. But they didn't hit as well in the clutch IMO. They did poorly in one run games! It's easy to blame the whole thing on the pitching. But that's just not entirely the case. I remembwhere the Orioles were behind and the offdidn't mater. Scoring early helps the pitching staff out. It takes someone who actually played competitive sports to understand the things you can't see when simply comparing runs scored over two years.

They offense had a couple of spells where they didn't score diddly and we're always playing behind.

I agree we shouldn't blame it all on the (starting) pitching. They bear more blame than the offense, though. By the way, we finished 25-26 in one-run games, and did much better in that department in the second half of the season. We also hit very well with RISP this year. So, I can't say the offense was particularly unclutch. The starters were unclutch. We lost 35 games where we had the lead this year, compared to 25 last year, even though the bullpen blew 4 fewer saves than last year. That's on the starters.

[weams]

I agree we shouldn't blame it all on the (starting) pitching. They bear more blame than the offense, though. By the way, we finished 25-26 in one-run games, and did much better in that department in the second half of the season. We also hit very well with RISP this year. So, I can't say the offense was particularly unclutch. The starters were unclutch. We lost 35 games where we had the lead this year, compared to 25 last year, even though the bullpen blew 4 fewer saves than last year. That's on the starters.

Mostly the starters.

[Roll Tide]

I read that as "the facts don't support my argument, but I'm going to press forward anyway."

The Orioles were an average team in terms of OPS in high leverage situations, 14th MLB, ahead of teams like Houston, Texas, Tampa, Boston, the Twins and the Nats. Almost dead even with the Mets. Their other splits were a mixed bag, but they had points in their favor like the 8th-best OPS in MLB with 2 outs and runners in scoring position.

You have the right to interpret it any way you'd like. As long as it doesn't become an attack. I don't argue the stats ... But I think we got little from our RF, LF, and DH. I think we are going to step in the wrong direction. My opinion we will see!

[weams]

You have the right to interpret it any way you'd like. As long as it doesn't become an attack. I don't argue the stats ... But I think we got little from our RF, LF, and DH. I think we are going to step in the wrong direction. My opinion we will see!

Yeah. I want to take an opportunity to clarify. Moderation has no problem with disagreements or dismissal of anyone's opinion. We just don't want it becoming a personal attack against the poster himself.

Feel free to dismantle anyone's argument or thoughts about where were are or where we are headed! That's what we are here for.

[SteveO]

It's hyperbole. The SP was bad last season but that is not the mean for them. They will not all pitch as poorly this season. It needs to be upgraded, but that can be done by adding depth, it isn't necessary to spend 30 M on Price or Greinke. A competitive team would be like HOU which won 86 G. We don't need to move mountains to go from 81 to 86 W.

Lets not pretend like the team we have under contract is a 81 win team and only needs to add 5 wins to get to 86. Losing Davis, Chen MW and O'Day is no insignificant part of that 81 win team don't ya think?

I do agree that you do not have to sign Price or Greinke, that said your gonna have to add some quality players to get there. I agree with your point, just think your oversimplifying it by saying we only have to move from 81 to 86 games.

[El Gordo]

Lets not pretend like the team we have under contract is a 81 win team and only needs to add 5 wins to get to 86. Losing Davis, Chen MW and O'Day is no insignificant part of that 81 win team don't ya think?

I do agree that you do not have to sign Price or Greinke, that said your gonna have to add some quality players to get there. I agree with your point, just think your oversimplifying it by saying we only have to move from 81 to 86 games.

I think if you spend the 40 M right, you can add the players you need to be an 86 W or better team. Quality players does not mean to me 20 M + AAV players.

[SteveO]

I think if you spend the 40 M right, you can add the players you need to be an 86 W or better team. Quality players does not mean to me 20 M + AAV players.

Agree also here. I don't believe for a second though you can blow 20 to 25 million AAV on Davis and still do enough to replace Chen and upgrade spots that need to be. Far as I am concerned giving Davis that kind of money will ensure some fans are happy, but it will also ensure this team is no better and likely worse than last year.

Not resiging Cruz did not sink us in 2015. Spending his money on ayers who did not produce is what did. If DD soends that 40 million wisely and gets decent production for it, this team can and will be competitive.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

[El Gordo]

Agree also here. I don't believe for a second though you can blow 20 to 25 million AAV on Davis and still do enough to replace Chen and upgrade spots that need to be. Far as I am concerned giving Davis that kind of money will ensure some fans are happy, but it will also ensure this team is no better and likely worse than last year.

Not resiging Cruz did not sink us in 2015. Spending his money on ayers who did not produce is what did. If DD soends that 40 million wisely and gets decent production for it, this team can and will be competitive.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

:agree: Use the money not spent on CD to get SP and OBP position players.

[abbott]

What 2 or 3 players will come up from the minors to make season long impacts in2016. After 4 years of Dan imprint on the system, this year needs to produce at least a couple of impact rookies.

[weams]

Both Oliver Drake and Trey Mancini are currently being voted for at MiLB as top players at their positions. The Baysox as a whole as top team.

[Spy Fox]

Analytically, you can get in a lot of interesting conversations about the "competitive window" idea.

But from a fan emotion perspective, my theory is this: Our competitive window for 2015 closed on September 28 when we were eliminated from the playoffs. Out competitive window for 2016 opens on April 4 against the Twins.

Analytically, pretty much nobody thought there was a competitive window opening on 2012. The stat projections have predicted the Orioles to be noncompetitive in each of the last four years and have been wrong each time. (You can say this year's team was unsuccessful but not noncompetitive.)

[weams]

I like both players. But top players at their positions is not the same as top prospect at their positions.

I agree.

[Frobby]

:agree: Use the money not spent on CD to get SP and OBP position players.

High OBP players aren't cheap to obtain and don't grow on trees. Davis had a .361 OBP, 29th among qualifiers in MLB. We'll be hard pressed to find a player who matches that, even with far less power.