Has our competitive window closed???

[Three Run Homer]

Then trade Adam and Manny and Britton and Schoop immediately and stop back and check in 2022.

I agree with two out of your four suggestions.

[DocJJ]

What moves can the franchise realistically make this off season that will help put us in the playoff hunt for 2016?

Signing Price or Greinke to head the rotation would. But will that happen? No.

Re-signing Davis would. But will that happen? Maybe.

Suppose we add a few nice pieces like Zobrist or Alex Gordon, or even Jason Heyward. Will that get us into the playoff hunt? Not if we don't have starting pitching.

The real issue with this team is the rotation. I don't see a way of addressing it. The best FA starters are too expensive. We will likely lose our best starter (Chen). We don't have prospects to trade for a solid starter.

So is it hyperbole? I don't think so. I don't see any way we can fix our awful rotation in a way that will get us into the playoff hunt. Call it hyperbole if you want...I just don't see a way of doing it. We can't outbid the big spenders. We don't have any minor league prospects that are healthy and big league ready. We don't have anything of value to trade. I don't think it's hyperbole, just the bitter reality of the situation.

[weams]

I agree with two out of your four suggestions.

There were five suggestions.

[backwardsk]

What moves can the franchise realistically make this off season that will help put us in the playoff hunt for 2016?

Signing Price or Greinke to head the rotation would. But will that happen? No.

Re-signing Davis would. But will that happen? Maybe.

Suppose we add a few nice pieces like Zobrist or Alex Gordon, or even Jason Heyward. Will that get us into the playoff hunt? Not if we don't have starting pitching.

The real issue with this team is the rotation. I don't see a way of addressing it. The best FA starters are too expensive. We will likely lose our best starter (Chen). We don't have prospects to trade for a solid starter.

So is it hyperbole? I don't think so. I don't see any way we can fix our awful rotation in a way that will get us into the playoff hunt. Call it hyperbole if you want...I just don't see a way of doing it. We can't outbid the big spenders. We don't have any minor league prospects that are healthy and big league ready. We don't have anything of value to trade. I don't think it's hyperbole, just the bitter reality of the situation.

We won 96 games with Bud Norris, Tillman, Gonzalez, and bad Ubaldo.

The rotation must be improved, but I don't think we have to have Price or Grienke to be competitive.

There are a ton of good pitchers available. I see us getting a guy that won't scream number 1, but will make the rotation stronger.

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[DrungoHazewood]

We won 96 games with Bud Norris, Tillman, Gonzalez, and bad Ubaldo.

The rotation must be improved, but I don't think we have to have Price or Grienke to be competitive.

There are a ton of good pitchers available. I see us getting a guy that won't scream number 1, but will make the rotation stronger.

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But you have to have a couple TOR starters to win. I don't think 2014 really happened. It was some kind of witchcraft.

[Roll Tide]

We won 96 games with Bud Norris, Tillman, Gonzalez, and bad Ubaldo.

The rotation must be improved, but I don't think we have to have Price or Grienke to be competitive.

There are a ton of good pitchers available. I see us getting a guy that won't scream number 1, but will make the rotation stronger.

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Well you forgot Chen in the mention of the 96 wins....you almost certainly will lose him and your first starter signing does little more than bring you even. If it's Worley it doesn't even come close.

The 96 Wins also had to do with clutch players most notably Markakis setting the table and Cruz as a key guy driving him in.

We never did replace either guy until Parra was added late. Cruz was not replaced and still hasn't been. Now subtract Davis and things are worse! So again they need to adequately replace Cruz and Davis to get back what was lost. One could argue that you also need a real DH to replace what we got from Delmon.

I just don't see how we have enough to add Price/Greinke, Kazmir, Upton [Davis replacement), Zobrist/Gordon (Cruz replacement) , and either resign Parra or find another lead off hitter.

If they really want to win 90+ games that's what it will take....Als that's assuming you can either get Oday to resign for a reasonable contract or absorb his loss. I think people under value Darren's contribution to the club.

[backwardsk]

Well you forgot Chen in the mention of the 96 wins....you almost certainly will lose him and your first starter signing does little more than bring you even. If it's Worley it doesn't even come close.

The 96 Wins also had to do with clutch players most notably Markakis setting the table and Cruz as a key guy driving him in.

We never did replace either guy until Parra was added late. Cruz was not replaced and still hasn't been. Now subtract Davis and things are worse! So again they need to adequately replace Cruz and Davis to get back what was lost. One could argue that you also need a real DH to replace what we got from Delmon.

I just don't see how we have enough to add Price/Greinke, Kazmir, Upton [Davis replacement), Zobrist/Gordon (Cruz replacement) , and either resign Parra or find another lead off hitter.

If they really want to win 90+ games that's what it will take....Als that's assuming you can either get Oday to resign for a reasonable contract or absorb his loss. I think people under value Darren's contribution to the club.

That still won't get you to 90 wins in the AL East. At a minimum they have to get three out of Grienke, Price, Cueto, and Zimmermann. Two out of Upton, Heyward, and Cespedes. Resign O'Day and Davis and pray nobody gets hurt. Then they might have a shot at being competitive.

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[El Gordo]

Well you forgot Chen in the mention of the 96 wins....you almost certainly will lose him and your first starter signing does little more than bring you even. If it's Worley it doesn't even come close.

The 96 Wins also had to do with clutch players most notably Markakis setting the table and Cruz as a key guy driving him in.

We never did replace either guy until Parra was added late. Cruz was not replaced and still hasn't been. Now subtract Davis and things are worse! So again they need to adequately replace Cruz and Davis to get back what was lost. One could argue that you also need a real DH to replace what we got from Delmon.

I just don't see how we have enough to add Price/Greinke, Kazmir, Upton [Davis replacement), Zobrist/Gordon (Cruz replacement) , and either resign Parra or find another lead off hitter.

If they really want to win 90+ games that's what it will take....Als that's assuming you can either get Oday to resign for a reasonable contract or absorb his loss. I think people under value Darren's contribution to the club.

Absolutely ridiculous, specious, nonsense. We scored more runs without Cruz and Markakis, than we did with them. The SP underperformed. They didn't all have to have career years, they only needed to have average years for us to make the play offs. I don't remember hearing you whining for SP upgrades last winter.

[Roll Tide]

Absolutely ridiculous, specious, nonsense. We scored more runs without Cruz and Markakis, than we did with them. The SP underperformed. They didn't all have to have career years, they only needed to have average years for us to make the play offs. I don't remember hearing you whining for SP upgrades last winter.

I'm not whining Gordo ..so quit being a jerk!

You live in this fantasy world where this team and its management with find some magical fairly dust that will somehow boost us to contention.

The Orioles haven't had a #1 starter since Mussina left! It gets talked about every year. Don't try to pretend like you have my every post memorized. Because your just plain wrong.

Your personal attacks here are just ridiculous and the actions of a spoiled little kid.

It's an Internet message board for flip sake. The whole fun in the conversation is that everyone doesn't have to think the same way. We don't all have to be Angelos lovers , Koolaid sippers. Conversely we all don't have to be Angelos or Orioles management haters. If we did the board would be very boring!

Honestly the Orioles may have scored more runs. But they didn't hit as well in the clutch IMO. They did poorly in one run games! It's easy to blame the whole thing on the pitching. But that's just not entirely the case. I remember games where the Orioles were behind and the offense put up some runs late that really didn't mater. Scoring early helps the pitching staff out. It takes someone who actually played competitive sports to understand the things you can't see when simply comparing runs scored over two years.

They offense had a couple of spells where they didn't score diddly and we're always playing behind.

I don't think anyone blamed the offense for this mess. But you don't let Davis, Cruz, Markakis, and Wieters leave in two seasons and expect to complete.

In Cruz and Davis your losing 70-80 home runs and 200 RBI.

They did nothing that worked last offseason to replace Cruz. I'm not expecting anything close to what I'm suggesting in my post that you again use for launching your personal vendettas from years on this board.

All I expect to them to do this offseason is Dumster dive. The payroll will probably drop pretty substantially. or they will blow a bunch but adding middling players and them releasing them and eating the salary.

As far as I'm concerned this team needs a RF, LF, 1B, SS or 3B (whichever Manny doesn't play), and 2 SPs with one of them being top tier. And resigning ODay would keep the bullpen from taking a big step beck. To be clear I think Hardy is done!

You don't have to agree, hell I don't even want you to! Just put me on ignore so I don't have to deal with your crap.

[DrungoHazewood]

That still won't get you to 90 wins in the AL East. At a minimum they have to get three out of Grienke, Price, Cueto, and Zimmermann. Two out of Upton, Heyward, and Cespedes. Resign O'Day and Davis and pray nobody gets hurt. Then they might have a shot at being competitive.

Wow... now I can see why all the pessimism here. You actually think the O's need to add Grienke, Price, Zimmerman, Heyward, Cespedes, Davis, and O'Day and pray for good luck to win. Two of the best starters in baseball, a solid #2, two of the top free agent outfielders, plus resigning two of their own who'll get big deals.

Just back of the napkin, let's say Cespedes adds five wins, Heyward another five, Price maybe 4-5, Grienke 4-5, Zimmerman about even with losing Chen, Davis loses two, O'Day holds serve... Call the rest of the team a wash. So that's 81 + roughly 20... so yea, that might do it. I don't believe any team has a true talent above 95 wins or so, but that would a pretty good case. Certainly no other team in baseball would have a better outlook going into 2016. Certainly the best rotation in baseball, since you're relegating Gausman, Tillman, Ubaldo, Gonzalez, etc to no better than 4th starters.

Of course the downside is that you'd be adding at least $75M to the 2015 payroll, pushing the O's into the top 5 payrolls in baseball. Even the most anti-Angelos person couldn't think they could support that.

Back to reality, the Orioles could plausibly compete with a third of your additions and some other smart pickups and stay within a non-loopy budget.

[DrungoHazewood]

Honestly the Orioles may have scored more runs. But they didn't hit as well in the clutch IMO.

I read that as "the facts don't support my argument, but I'm going to press forward anyway."

The Orioles were an average team in terms of OPS in high leverage situations, 14th MLB, ahead of teams like Houston, Texas, Tampa, Boston, the Twins and the Nats. Almost dead even with the Mets. Their other splits were a mixed bag, but they had points in their favor like the 8th-best OPS in MLB with 2 outs and runners in scoring position.

[TheDirtyBird]

Obviously we've become the lesser version of the Giants. Make the playoffs every even year 2012, 2014 and soon 2016

[abbott]

IF anyone wants to compete for a playoff spot in 2016, you are crazy. If we get lucky enough maybe, but not be design. THere is a systemic failure, once again, to provide a competitive team in Baltimore. The farm system (Amatuer drafting) is weak. The International amateur system is rarely and randomly productive and the team can say anything, but results have proven the organization is ineffective at producing talent.

THe team is a small market team. Truth is unimportant, it is run like a small market, small revenue team that believes that ownership should be make as much as the players. We can argue, but ownership does it wants and is not receptive to customer complaints. When attendance sunk below 2 million maybe they took notice, but as soon as it went up, they went back to a bare bones operation.

In rder to be successful, there must be a systemic restructuring, and the scouting and plyer development personnel must be given 4-6 to implement a plan. And the fans must understand that success can not be measured until 2020

[backwardsk]

Wow... now I can see why all the pessimism here. You actually think the O's need to add Grienke, Price, Zimmerman, Heyward, Cespedes, Davis, and O'Day and pray for good luck to win. Two of the best starters in baseball, a solid #2, two of the top free agent outfielders, plus resigning two of their own who'll get big deals.

Just back of the napkin, let's say Cespedes adds five wins, Heyward another five, Price maybe 4-5, Grienke 4-5, Zimmerman about even with losing Chen, Davis loses two, O'Day holds serve... Call the rest of the team a wash. So that's 81 + roughly 20... so yea, that might do it. I don't believe any team has a true talent above 95 wins or so, but that would a pretty good case. Certainly no other team in baseball would have a better outlook going into 2016. Certainly the best rotation in baseball, since you're relegating Gausman, Tillman, Ubaldo, Gonzalez, etc to no better than 4th starters.

Of course the downside is that you'd be adding at least $75M to the 2015 payroll, pushing the O's into the top 5 payrolls in baseball. Even the most anti-Angelos person couldn't think they could support that.

Back to reality, the Orioles could plausibly compete with a third of your additions and some other smart pickups and stay within a non-loopy budget.

I was being sarcastic.

Though the 2015 Red Sox did sign two of the premier position players and couldn't pass the Orioles after their horrendous offseason.

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[weams]

IF anyone wants to compete for a playoff spot in 2016, you are crazy. If we get lucky enough maybe, but not be design. THere is a systemic failure, once again, to provide a competitive team in Baltimore. The farm system (Amatuer drafting) is weak. The International amateur system is rarely and randomly productive and the team can say anything, but results have proven the organization is ineffective at producing talent.

THe team is a small market team. Truth is unimportant, it is run like a small market, small revenue team that believes that ownership should be make as much as the players. We can argue, but ownership does it wants and is not receptive to customer complaints. When attendance sunk below 2 million maybe they took notice, but as soon as it went up, they went back to a bare bones operation.

In rder to be successful, there must be a systemic restructuring, and the scouting and plyer development personnel must be given 4-6 to implement a plan. And the fans must understand that success can not be measured until 2020

This absolute lunacy. Enjoy your offseason.