Yeah Hernandez!!!!!!

[Trace21230]

I enjoy watching this team more with LH at SS than Tejada. LH made three plays today that I doubt Tejada would have made. And I enjoy his AB because I know everytime he does something productive SG's head explodes.

I like watching LH too. It might be an expectations thing. I always expected so much out of Tejada because he was the team leader, former MVP and basically a superstar. He let me down in many, many, many ways both on and off the field.

With LH, everything is gravy. So I don't get as worked up when he doesn't produce.

[Trace21230]

There are also many reasons not to bash Tejada, such as his offensive prowess, his solid to good defense for his first 3 years here, the times he came through in the clutch, the great vibes he brought to the clubhouse in 2005, the 3 all-star games he made.

Anybody trying to argue that Miggy was anything short of a phenomenal player during his stay here is simply mis-representing the truth or even flat out lying. He certainly had his faults, and his final year to two years here did have more than a few off-field incidents that didn't reflect greatly on him. But, overall, he was probably the second best FA signing in Oriole history behind Palmeiro (the first time). Its not his fault the team around him wasn't good enough to win. He played at an MVP level his first two years here and then an AS level his 3rd year.

He clearly needed to be traded, nobody is arguing that. The direction the club needed to take and the direction Miggy's career was taking were opposite. He needed to win immediately, that was not possible here.

He was not a "phenomenol player." Stating that doesn't make me a liar or a misrepresenter of "the truth." It's an opinion statement. Why you're so personally attaches to Tejada, I don't know. It smacks of something I'd expect from a grade school Os fan.

It's not totally his fault that the team wasn't good enough to win. But, wasn't he ON THE TEAM? And wasn't he the "team leader"? I guess in your mind Tejada gets none of the blame for the Orioles poor team performance while he was on it. He was perfect and everything else was horrible, with nothing attributable to #10. I understand what you're trying to argue, but I think it's absolutely wrong.

Contrary to what you may think, I always cheered for Tejada while he wore the black and orange. He disappointed me. It takes a lot for an Oriole to disappoint me. He is as much responsible for his performance here as anyone else including Peter Angelos. And I don't think that performance was what the Orioles deserved. The Orioles deserved better from Miguel Tejada.

[MikeAD]

He was not a "phenomenol player." Stating that doesn't make me a liar or a misrepresenter of "the truth." It's an opinion statement. Why you're so personally attaches to Tejada, I don't know. It smacks of something I'd expect from a grade school Os fan.

It's not totally his fault that the team wasn't good enough to win. But, wasn't he ON THE TEAM? And wasn't he the "team leader"? I guess in your mind Tejada gets none of the blame for the Orioles poor team performance while he was on it. He was perfect and everything else was horrible, with nothing attributable to #10. I understand what you're trying to argue, but I think it's absolutely wrong.

Contrary to what you may think, I always cheered for Tejada while he wore the black and orange. He disappointed me. It takes a lot for an Oriole to disappoint me. He is as much responsible for his performance here as anyone else including Peter Angelos. And I don't think that performance was what the Orioles deserved. The Orioles deserved better from Miguel Tejada.

Can you name me 5 SS you would have rather had instead while Miggy was here?

[Sports Guy]

He was not a "phenomenol player." Stating that doesn't make me a liar or a misrepresenter of "the truth." It's an opinion statement. Why you're so personally attaches to Tejada, I don't know. It smacks of something I'd expect from a grade school Os fan.

It's not totally his fault that the team wasn't good enough to win. But, wasn't he ON THE TEAM? And wasn't he the "team leader"? I guess in your mind Tejada gets none of the blame for the Orioles poor team performance while he was on it. He was perfect and everything else was horrible, with nothing attributable to #10. I understand what you're trying to argue, but I think it's absolutely wrong.

Contrary to what you may think, I always cheered for Tejada while he wore the black and orange. He disappointed me. It takes a lot for an Oriole to disappoint me. He is as much responsible for his performance here as anyone else including Peter Angelos. And I don't think that performance was what the Orioles deserved. The Orioles deserved better from Miguel Tejada.

So, you admit its his opinion and then you basically bash him for it? ....Mackus, you feel bad now, don't you? lol

[Trace21230]

So, you admit its his opinion and then you basically bash him for it? ....Mackus, you feel bad now, don't you? lol

Not really, but thanks for the usual contribution; none.

[Trace21230]

Can you name me 5 SS you would have rather had instead while Miggy was here?

Sure.

Jose Reyes

Michael Young

Derek Jeter

Hanley Ramirez

Troy Tulowitzki

Jimmy Rollins

[Sports Guy]

Sure.

Jose Reyes

Michael Young

Derek Jeter

Hanley Ramirez

Troy Tulowitzki

Jimmy Rollins

Those 3 are much much worse than Miggy defensively.

[Trace21230]

Those 3 are much much worse than Miggy defensively.

So what, there's more to a player than defense. Haven't you been saying that all along?

[Sports Guy]

So what, there's more to a player than defense. Haven't you been saying that all along?

Yes I have but you are one of the people who are ridiculously crying about his defense and then you turn around and advocate 3 players who are worse defensively. Go figure.

THis just goes to what many of us think...People just hated Tejada for bogus reasons and look for any reason(usually a made up one) to not like him.

[MikeAD]

Sure.

Jose Reyes

They are a different type of player, but we already had a graet lead up guy in Roberts, so Tejada is more valuable.

Michael Young

Tejada much better in the field. Its either a push or advantage to Miggi on offense.

Derek Jeter

No argument here

Hanley Ramirez

Wouldn't have been there, I asked for players over Miggi's term here. 4 yeas of Miguel Tejada are better than two of Ramirez.

Troy Tulowitzki

So 1 year and a small part of another of Tulowitzk is better than 4 years of Tejada?

Jimmy Rollins

-Similar to my response Reyes.

[George]

Debates about the Tejada issue seem rather pointless, especially when the arguments pro and con are trivialized by some immature posters.

Baseball can be, at its very best, an aesthetically uplifting experience. Unfortunately this experience is ruined by poor defensive play, especially at shortstop. It may be true that a great offensive shortstop can overcome poor defensive play and be a net positive asset to a team. But it takes a bushel of hitting to accomplish that. My hope is that the end of the steroid era will require baseball to return to basics. Attendance may falter as the most vulgar of fans love the long ball, but the game will be better for a fundamentalist revival.

Baseball is more than just winning and losing. If one believes that wins and losses are the sine qua non numerical measure of performance, then why not follow some quantitative data where winning actually means something, like the stock market tickers?

As long as we are rehashing the Tejada saga, I'd like to know if anyone has a good explanation for an off-field incident that really bothered me last year. Perlozzo, a couple Oriole executives, and 11 players visited Walter Reed in May 2007. Rock Kubatko wrote this:

"A large contingent of Orioles visited Walter Reed Army Medical Hospital before arriving at RFK Stadium. The list of players included Jeremy Guthrie, Paul Bako, Brian Burres, Jay Gibbons, Aubrey Huff, Nick Markakis, Kevin Millar, John Parrish, Chris Ray, Brian Roberts and Jamie Walker."

Note that Tejada, the team's star player, didn't make it to the event. Indeed the Hispanic players were notably absent. I inferred from this that it was likely that a split along racial lines divided the team. The divisions must have been serious because the Hispanic players did not choose to overlook the split to make a nice day for some of the injured veterans.

I'm not a right-wing Bushie, but I believe all people can agree that the heroic troops merit our highest regard. It reflects poorly on people who value their petty personal feuds more than the veterans.

[BaltimoreTerp]

So what, there's more to a player than defense. Haven't you been saying that all along?

Miguel Tejada:

2004 - 34 HR, 131 OPS+

2005 - 26 HR, 128 OPS+

2006 - 24 HR, 126 OPS+

2007 - 18 HR, 109 OPS+

Michael Young:

2004 - 22 HR, 109 OPS+

2005 - 24 HR, 131 OPS+

2006 - 14 HR, 108 OPS+

2007 - 9 HR, 107 OPS+

Derek Jeter:

2004 - 23 HR, 114 OPS+

2005 - 19 HR, 125 OPS+

2006 - 14 HR, 132 OPS+

2007 - 12 HR, 121 OPS+

Hanley Ramirez:

2006 - 17 HR, 116 OPS+

2007 - 29 HR, 145 OPS+

So, all three are inferior defensively, and all three were inferior to Tejada head-to-head in at least half the comparable years.

So...that's your story and you're sticking to it?

[Trace21230]

Miguel Tejada:

2004 - 34 HR, 131 OPS+

2005 - 26 HR, 128 OPS+

2006 - 24 HR, 126 OPS+

2007 - 18 HR, 109 OPS+

Michael Young:

2004 - 22 HR, 109 OPS+

2005 - 24 HR, 131 OPS+

2006 - 14 HR, 108 OPS+

2007 - 9 HR, 107 OPS+

Derek Jeter:

2004 - 23 HR, 114 OPS+

2005 - 19 HR, 125 OPS+

2006 - 14 HR, 132 OPS+

2007 - 12 HR, 121 OPS+

Hanley Ramirez:

2006 - 17 HR, 116 OPS+

2007 - 29 HR, 145 OPS+

So, all three are inferior defensively, and all three were inferior to Tejada head-to-head in at least half the comparable years.

So...that's your story and you're sticking to it?

I don't accept that those defensive stats accurately measure the players' defensive value.

And none of the statistics measure the many intangibles that have been discussed on this thread.

The main stat that you and everyone else defending Tejada are willfully ignoring is their win-loss record with him on the team, as its "star" and "team leader."

So your story is that none of the replacements I've suggested would have been better for the most important stat, team wins, and you're sticking to it?

[MikeAD]

Miguel Tejada:

2004 - 34 HR, 131 OPS+

2005 - 26 HR, 128 OPS+

2006 - 24 HR, 126 OPS+

2007 - 18 HR, 109 OPS+

Michael Young:

2004 - 22 HR, 109 OPS+

2005 - 24 HR, 131 OPS+

2006 - 14 HR, 108 OPS+

2007 - 9 HR, 107 OPS+

Derek Jeter:

2004 - 23 HR, 114 OPS+

2005 - 19 HR, 125 OPS+

2006 - 14 HR, 132 OPS+

2007 - 12 HR, 121 OPS+

Hanley Ramirez:

2006 - 17 HR, 116 OPS+

2007 - 29 HR, 145 OPS+

So, all three are inferior defensively, and all three were inferior to Tejada head-to-head in at least half the comparable years.

So...that's your story and you're sticking to it?

If you combine your response and mine we have an argument mixes of statistical comparison and a moron's (my) observation.

This is an argument those relying on simply one or the other surely can't deny .

[Pickles]

These two- oldfan and trace- poisened the sunspot board w their irrational hatred of Tejada for years. I see they've left there and come here and continue, even though the guy hasn't played for Baltimore for 8 months, to spout the same tripe. I suggest everyone ignore them; they have no desire for a legitamate conversation or debate. The various threads they've hijacked should be ample evidence of this. They merely want an excuse to bash Tejada and every response they recieve gives them an excuse. It's beyond pathetic.