4 O's players that have played well enough to stick but will not....

[Beef Supreme]

If you are looking for Avery to have a high OPS you will likely be disappointed. He makes his living with his legs. He is a first or 2nd hitter in the order with a decent OBP (344 in the minors for the last three years). Coming off the bench he is a defensive replacement. The O's could do a lot worse than Avery, Jones and Rickard in the OF in the late innings. That is really 3 CFers to close out a win.

Avery throws like a shot-putter. That's not a "defensive replacement."

[Beef Supreme]

Yes, exactly. If Rickard starts then Avery and not Reimold has to be kept, bc he is a defensive replacement.

I'd play reimold over Avery as defensive replacement.

btw:

RF/9

Reimold (MLB) 2.19

Avery (minors) 2.20

Reimold has a strong, though erratic, arm. Avery can't throw.

[Frobby]

Janish, I can agree with but his bat is not what gets him to the majors. Its his glove.

Avery, a 2nd round draft choice, played last year at 25. He has averaged a 344 OBP for the last three years in the high minors. He played over a 100 games per year in those three years and last year had 7 assists and made only 2 errors. He could be a guy that busts through if given a chance. Probably deserves to at be on a major league bench. He has speed and range.

I don't want it to sound like I don't think these guys can contribute to a major league team. They can. However, they are more likely to contribute by being available for a call-up to the majors when someone gets hurt, then by being on someone's opening day roster.

I will grant that the current version of Avery, with two more years of AAA experience, is probably more ready to help a major league team than he was when we last saw him in Norfolk. But I am still not too swayed by 26 PA in spring training, against opposing pithers ranked 6.6 (below AA level).

As to Janish, he's a good guy to have around if Hardy is hurt. If Hardy's healthy, I'd rather find other ways to fill in when he needs a day off.

[wildcard]

Avery throws like a shot-putter. That's not a "defensive replacement."

Granted he is probably a leftfielder with Rickard switching to right for late innings. But Avery is going to catch a lot of balls that other fielders will not.

[Frobby]

Granted he is probably a leftfielder with Rickard switching to right for late innings. But Avery is going to catch a lot of balls that other fielders will not.

I'm not sure. The last I saw of him, he didn't track balls very well or run good routes. I recall that Hoes had better range stats in CF than Avery, even though Avery is much faster. Again, it's been a few years since I have seen much of Avery, so maybe he has improved.

[DrungoHazewood]

Janish, I can agree with but his bat is not what gets him to the majors. Its his glove.

People occasionally say this, basically that Janish or Paul Bako or Cesar Izturis or whomever's bat doesn't matter. Only the glove. The truth is the whole package is all that matters. Janish is 33 and has a .575 OPS. His career wRC+ is 55, or 16 points lower than Mark Belanger. I can pretty well guarantee Janish's glove isn't 16 points better than Mark Belanger's.

You can hit poorly enough to easily negate your defensive strengths. No matter your role.

[DrungoHazewood]

I'd play reimold over Avery as defensive replacement.

btw:

RF/9

Reimold (MLB) 2.19

Avery (minors) 2.20

Reimold has a strong, though erratic, arm. Avery can't throw.

Range factor is subject to myriad biases. It would be very surprising if one could construct a logical, evidence-based case than Reimold is a better outfielder than Avery.

[wildcard]

I'd play reimold over Avery as defensive replacement.

btw:

RF/9

Reimold (MLB) 2.19

Avery (minors) 2.20

Reimold has a strong, though erratic, arm. Avery can't throw.

The first thing that has to happen with fielding is the fielder has to get to the ball. Avery is way more mobile and has better field instincts than Reimold. Reimold has speed once he gets going but his jumps aren't necessarily quick and he does not go back on the ball well.

I will agree that Reimold's arm is better. But I think an out field of Avery LF and Rickard in right for late innings is better than Rickard in LF and Reimold in RF.

Reimold will make this team. Let's see if Buck thinks he is a defensive replacement for Trumbo. He might if he doesn't have anyone better.

[wildcard]

I'm not sure. The last I saw of him, he didn't track balls very well or run good routes. I recall that Hoes had better range stats in CF than Avery, even though Avery is much faster. Again, it's been a few years since I have seen much of Avery, so maybe he has improved.

I don't think Hoes has look that good doing anything his spring. I expected better and have been disappointed.

[wildcard]

People occasionally say this, basically that Janish or Paul Bako or Cesar Izturis or whomever's bat doesn't matter. Only the glove. The truth is the whole package is all that matters. Janish is 33 and has a .575 OPS. His career wRC+ is 55, or 16 points lower than Mark Belanger. I can pretty well guarantee Janish's glove isn't 16 points better than Mark Belanger's.

You can hit poorly enough to easily negate your defensive strengths. No matter your role.

I dont't agree. Not with the offense this club has. If one of the infielders (not 1b) going down they will need a good glove man. Remember Cabrera kicking the ball around last year. It was disgusting.

[Beef Supreme]

Range factor is subject to myriad biases. It would be very surprising if one could construct a logical, evidence-based case than Reimold is a better outfielder than Avery.

OK. Avery has a horrible throwing arm. Is that logical enough?

[wildcard]

Range factor is subject to myriad biases. It would be very surprising if one could construct a logical, evidence-based case than Reimold is a better outfielder than Avery.

The argument for Reimold is that he will be with the O's in the majors while Avery will be at AAA. Its really hard to have good range in Baltimore while playing in Norfolk.

[DrungoHazewood]

I dont't agree. Not with the offense this club has. If one of the infielders (not 1b) going down they will need a good glove man. Remember Cabrera kicking the ball around last year. It was disgusting.

You can disagree all you want but good teams don't play .575 bats unless they're just totally out of options. Brendan Ryan is Paul Janish with a better glove and bat and he's a 25th man who might get 100 PAs a year.

[DrungoHazewood]

The argument for Reimold is that he will be with the O's in the majors while Avery will be at AAA. Its really hard to have good range in Baltimore while playing in Norfolk.

What does that have to do with the discussion of their relative defensive merits?

[DrungoHazewood]

OK. Avery has a horrible throwing arm. Is that logical enough?

Sure, if that's what you're arguing. But I'd assume range is quite a bit more important than arm.