How are the rule 5 guys doing?

[BohKnowsBmore]

We don't need a theoretical AAA replacement, we have Reimold and Kim.

Do you think Rickard has outperformed Reimold on either offense or defense?

I'm talking specifically about WAR having him as sub-replacement at this point.

[Can_of_corn]

I'm talking specifically about WAR having him as sub-replacement at this point.

I know.

I think I addressed this earlier when I said Rickard's style of play was aesthetically pleasing. I was being serious. He looks good out there.

He doesn't look like a guy performing below replacement level.

But back to my question who do you think has performed better this season, Rickard or Reimold?

[sportsfan8703]

I think RZNJ makes a good point regarding Rickard's negative value coming mainly from defense with a small sample size. I believe he gets hurt by the six games / 55 innings he's played in CF more than anything.

This is what I think too. Is there anyway to prove this? Plus with all the OF shifting does his defensive sabermetrics get hurt if a guy unpredictably hits a ball to where you're not playing.

Example: Say the scouting report says to play in the LF gap on a guy. Well then the guy dinks one where the LF'er should get to if he were playing in a normal alignment. This is where I think defensive metrics come up short. I think they were developing and then team started with the crazy shifting and the metrics haven't caught back up.

[sportsfan8703]

I notice in LF. Joey gets positioned well into the gap, and often doesn't get to balls hit to shallow LF or towards the line. Perhaps other LF don't get positioned like that, and get to more of those balls?

This is exactly what I just posted. Is our shifting/scouting reports hurting his defensive metrics? We could just be getting unlucky.

[Babypowder]

This is what I think too. Is there anyway to prove this? Plus with all the OF shifting does his defensive sabermetrics get hurt if a guy unpredictably hits a ball to where you're not playing.

Example: Say the scouting report says to play in the LF gap on a guy. Well then the guy dinks one where the LF'er should get to if he were playing in a normal alignment. This is where I think defensive metrics come up short. I think they were developing and then team started with the crazy shifting and the metrics haven't caught back up.

Yes, simple reading, actually.

As you've been told on this very same subject previously, Rickard's metrics are better in CF than they are in LF. Playing CF isn't hurting him.

Now, the sample size makes them pretty irrelevant altogether, but I haven't been impressed with his routes and reads or him missing the cutoff several times. He also has been a below average hitter, especially against RHP.

[BohKnowsBmore]

I know.

I think I addressed this earlier when I said Rickard's style of play was aesthetically pleasing. I was being serious. He looks good out there.

He doesn't look like a guy performing below replacement level.

But back to my question who do you think has performed better this season, Rickard or Reimold?

With the bat, Reimold has been better, which the stats confirm. When you combine the fielding* and bat, though, I think it's much closer than you're implying. I would like to see Reimold get more time, FWIW.

* Didn't the word around here use to be that Nolan was a butcher in the field?

[LookitsPuck]

Total WAR for Rule V players on the O's since Duquette took over.

Ryan Flaherty: 1.6 WAR over 1,100 PA (5 seasons including this year)

TJ McFarland: 0.5 WAR over 187 IP (4 seasons include this year)

Jason Garcia: -0.1 WAR over 29 2/3 IP (currently in minors)

Logan Verett: claimed by Rangers, returned to Mets

Michael Almanzar: 0.0 WAR over 0 PA

Joey Rickard: -0.3 WAR over 168 PA

Currently 1.7 WAR for 4 players that have played in the majors for the Orioles.

I'm beginning to wonder if these players are really worth the effort of clogging a roster spot and usually at the expense of them being worthy talent.

[BohKnowsBmore]

Total WAR for Rule V players on the O's since Duquette took over.

Ryan Flaherty: 1.6 WAR over 1,100 PA (5 seasons including this year)

TJ McFarland: 0.5 WAR over 187 IP (4 seasons include this year)

Jason Garcia: -0.1 WAR over 29 2/3 IP (currently in minors)

Logan Verett: claimed by Rangers, returned to Mets

Michael Almanzar: 0.0 WAR over 0 PA

Joey Rickard: -0.3 WAR over 168 PA

Currently 1.7 WAR for 4 players that have played in the majors for the Orioles.

I'm beginning to wonder if these players are really worth the effort of clogging a roster spot and usually at the expense of them being worthy talent.

I don't agree with the notion that a theoretical AAA player would be better that rickard.

I'm glad we have flaherty.

McFarland is sort of a wash.

The other guys, I don't know who they prevented us from having and Garcia may be something yet.

No reason to really worry about almanzar or verrett. They never held a spot on the 25.

[LookitsPuck]

I'm not trying to get too caught up with WAR here aside from raising the question: would the club had been better off signing someone instead of hamstringing the roster for a full season?

I'm okay w/ Flaherty as a utility player, but I'm really using this as raising the question as to why bother with the Rule V? Going on 5 years here and we haven't accrued much all the while sacrificing roster flexibility.

[El Gordo]

I would have been happy if we had signed Fowler, but he wanted to be a Cub. Other wise I am happy with Joey.

[BohKnowsBmore]

I'm not trying to get too caught up with WAR here aside from raising the question: would the club had been better off signing someone instead of hamstringing the roster for a full season?

I'm okay w/ Flaherty as a utility player, but I'm really using this as raising the question as to why bother with the Rule V? Going on 5 years here and we haven't accrued much all the while sacrificing roster flexibility.

If we had signed random vets, though, we may have had more expensive contracts and potentially worse results. Hard to be definitive either way. At least this approach has/had more upside potential.

[El Gordo]

Denard Span : .265 .365 .346 .711 Joey Rickard:.268 .317 .386 .703 .

[sportsfan8703]

Total WAR for Rule V players on the O's since Duquette took over.

Ryan Flaherty: 1.6 WAR over 1,100 PA (5 seasons including this year)

TJ McFarland: 0.5 WAR over 187 IP (4 seasons include this year)

Jason Garcia: -0.1 WAR over 29 2/3 IP (currently in minors)

Logan Verett: claimed by Rangers, returned to Mets

Michael Almanzar: 0.0 WAR over 0 PA

Joey Rickard: -0.3 WAR over 168 PA

Currently 1.7 WAR for 4 players that have played in the majors for the Orioles.

I'm beginning to wonder if these players are really worth the effort of clogging a roster spot and usually at the expense of them being worthy talent.

We've done a good job with the rule 5. Verrett could be in our rotation right now. Mac has been a valuable bullpen piece and will cheaply replace Matusz next year. Rickard looks like he'll be at least a cheap cost controlled MLB OF'er for 6 years. Garcia could be in some teams MLB bullpen right now.

[LookitsPuck]

We've done a good job with the rule 5. Verrett could be in our rotation right now. Mac has been a valuable bullpen piece and will cheaply replace Matusz next year. Rickard looks like he'll be at least a cheap cost controlled MLB OF'er for 6 years. Garcia could be in some teams MLB bullpen right now.

Did we do a good job with the Rule V draft? By my accounts the O's stuck w/ Garcia over Verrett much to my chagrin. Garcia's numbers in the minors: 6.47 ERA, 5.6 BB/9, 3.7 SO/9, 13.5 H/9. Whatever is going on w/ Garcia, he looks terrible. I personally think it's the O's insistence that he start (those numbers are in 7 starts in the minors). In any other system, he'd be working out as a reliever, but since the O's don't have much depth in regards to SP, this is what we're stuck with.

Flaherty is an OK utility player. McFarland has a career ERA of nearly 4 in the majors with a FIP of 3.77. His WHIP is 1.497. Strikeout rate is incredibly poor. Now, if the O's only put him in games where runners aren't on and he's mostly in mop up, he might put up some positive numbers, but he has no business being near a starting rotation.

Finally Rickard I'm not entirely sold on. His defense needs a lot of work. Aside from his hot start, he's been below average with the bat. Now, he's young (and a rookie) so he can improve. But we're looking at something like a poor man's Brett Gardner (without the elite defense). But overall I like his approach at the plate, but he's been thrust into being a leadoff hitter because the O's don't have many better options.

[MdSooner]

Did we do a good job with the Rule V draft? By my accounts the O's stuck w/ Garcia over Verrett much to my chagrin. Garcia's numbers in the minors: 6.47 ERA, 5.6 BB/9, 3.7 SO/9, 13.5 H/9. Whatever is going on w/ Garcia, he looks terrible. I personally think it's the O's insistence that he start (those numbers are in 7 starts in the minors). In any other system, he'd be working out as a reliever, but since the O's don't have much depth in regards to SP, this is what we're stuck with.

Flaherty is an OK utility player. McFarland has a career ERA of nearly 4 in the majors with a FIP of 3.77. His WHIP is 1.497. Strikeout rate is incredibly poor. Now, if the O's only put him in games where runners aren't on and he's mostly in mop up, he might put up some positive numbers, but he has no business being near a starting rotation.

Finally Rickard I'm not entirely sold on. His defense needs a lot of work. Aside from his hot start, he's been below average with the bat. Now, he's young (and a rookie) so he can improve. But we're looking at something like a poor man's Brett Gardner (without the elite defense). But overall I like his approach at the plate, but he's been thrust into being a leadoff hitter because the O's don't have many better options.

This. I dislike our front office in their choices for rule five guys. We have no luck with them. Either get a real scout or stop picking these types of players.

And I disagree with you about Ryan Flahetry. He has no business on a MLB roster. And I actually meet him and like him.