Can we no longer say we can't grow arms?

[bpilktree]

This came up in the Ubaldo topic and about how you can't expect us to grow arms. I know this was true for a few years but I am starting to think we can't use that argument any more. I was looking at our current roster and thinking we have a lot of home grown guys then I started looking at the other American league teams and how few teams have homegrown guys. In looking at this I consider homegrown any player that was either drafted by the team or had not pitched above A ball for another team meaning a guy like Tilman who was drafted by the Mariners but struggling in low A ball at 19 was grown by the Orioles. Looking at the current roster we have Tilman, Gausman, Wright, Wilson, Britton, Givens, Bundy, and Matsz. So 8 of the 12 are homegrown guys. That seems like a lot of homegrown guys for a team competing for playoffs the last 4 years and looks like a good start for the 5th year.

[LookitsPuck]

I think it's safe to say we can't grow starting pitchers. Gausman's development was butchered. So he grew in spite of the O's, not because of.

Bundy remains to be seen.

Matusz, Britton are failed starters.

Wright, Wilson are TBD.

I think this club can grow relievers. But that's not good enough. Not even close.

[bpilktree]

I think it's safe to say we can't grow starting pitchers. Gausman's development was butchered. So he grew in spite of the O's, not because of.

Bundy remains to be seen.

Matusz, Britton are failed starters.

Wright, Wilson are TBD.

I think this club can grow relievers. But that's not good enough. Not even close.

Good to see you with a low blow though data shows we are near the top of the majors with guys on the staff who were brought up through the organizations,

Compare that to other teams in our division.

Red Sox 3

Ravs 2

Yanks 3

Jays 4

[WEAVERMAN]

This came up in the Ubaldo topic and about how you can't expect us to grow arms. I know this was true for a few years but I am starting to think we can't use that argument any more. I was looking at our current roster and thinking we have a lot of home grown guys then I started looking at the other American league teams and how few teams have homegrown guys. In looking at this I consider homegrown any player that was either drafted by the team or had not pitched above A ball for another team meaning a guy like Tilman who was drafted by the Mariners but struggling in low A ball at 19 was grown by the Orioles. Looking at the current roster we have Tilman, Gausman, Wright, Wilson, Britton, Givens, Bundy, and Matsz. So 8 of the 12 are homegrown guys. That seems like a lot of homegrown guys for a team competing for playoffs the last 4 years and looks like a good start for the 5th year.

That's a great point, thanks for making it.

[bpilktree]

Here is the final numbers of all American League teams players that are home grown currently on the roster.

Orioles 8

Red Sox 3

Rays 2

Yanks 3

Jays 4

White Sox 4

Indians 4

Royals 5

Tigers 3

Twins 4

Mariners 2

Angels 5

Rangers 5

A's 3

Astros 4.

We have 3 more home grown players then any other team in the American League yet if you look at the team prospect rankings over the last 5 years or so we were middle of pack or near the bottom.

[bpilktree]

Here is the final numbers of all American League teams players that are home grown currently on the roster.

Orioles 8

Red Sox 3

Rays 2

Yanks 3

Jays 4

White Sox 4

Indians 4

Royals 5

Tigers 3

Twins 4

Mariners 2

Angels 5

Rangers 5

A's 3

Astros 4.

We have 3 more home grown players then any other team in the American League yet if you look at the team prospect rankings over the last 5 years or so we were middle of pack or near the bottom.

This is just looking at the pitchers not the entire roster.

[ReclaimTheCrown]

This came up in the Ubaldo topic and about how you can't expect us to grow arms. I know this was true for a few years but I am starting to think we can't use that argument any more. I was looking at our current roster and thinking we have a lot of home grown guys then I started looking at the other American league teams and how few teams have homegrown guys. In looking at this I consider homegrown any player that was either drafted by the team or had not pitched above A ball for another team meaning a guy like Tilman who was drafted by the Mariners but struggling in low A ball at 19 was grown by the Orioles. Looking at the current roster we have Tilman, Gausman, Wright, Wilson, Britton, Givens, Bundy, and Matsz. So 8 of the 12 are homegrown guys. That seems like a lot of homegrown guys for a team competing for playoffs the last 4 years and looks like a good start for the 5th year.

It's a great question but, in my view, one that is a bit too early to have a clear answer on. You're right that the early reviews on this year are pretty good (and I think better than anyone could have expected) - getting effective work from Wilson and Wright, and seeing pretty terrific potential from Tillman and Gausman, are great signs so far.

That said, I think the grade is still an "Incomplete". I'm very bullish on Tillman, thinking last season's struggles were more likely to be the anomaly than the norm, but can Gausman continue to take the next step this year and develop into a 1 or 2 type starter? Are Wilson and Wright able to sustain their effectiveness and be legitimate, though almost assuredly not top end, big league starters? And can any of the starters especially that have shown some promise in the high minors (a guy like Hess) turn into productive big leaguers. You're right that the bullpen is showing promise with some home grown players.

Those are some of the questions I think still need to be answered before we can declare that we can "grow arms"; that said, the early returns this year suggest we're doing better than we've done in a long time. Hope that continues.

[Bradysburns]

This came up in the Ubaldo topic and about how you can't expect us to grow arms. I know this was true for a few years but I am starting to think we can't use that argument any more. I was looking at our current roster and thinking we have a lot of home grown guys then I started looking at the other American league teams and how few teams have homegrown guys. In looking at this I consider homegrown any player that was either drafted by the team or had not pitched above A ball for another team meaning a guy like Tilman who was drafted by the Mariners but struggling in low A ball at 19 was grown by the Orioles. Looking at the current roster we have Tilman, Gausman, Wright, Wilson, Britton, Givens, Bundy, and Matsz. So 8 of the 12 are homegrown guys. That seems like a lot of homegrown guys for a team competing for playoffs the last 4 years and looks like a good start for the 5th year.

I'll give you Gausman. We didn't grow Tillman - he came from Seattle I think.

The other guys are huge question marks, or relievers. HOwever, Britton is elite, so there is that.

My point: We're still not great at it.

In fact, I look at Arrieta and Josh Hader as two prime, recent examples of how we still have a ways to go.

I will go this far: We have made SOME progress in this area. But hey, eventually even a blind squirrel finds an acorn.

[Redskins Rick]

I'll give you Gausman. We didn't grow Tillman - he came from Seattle I think.

The other guys are huge question marks, or relievers. HOwever, Britton is elite, so there is that.

My point: We're still not great at it.

In fact, I look at Arrieta and Josh Hader as two prime, recent examples of how we still have a ways to go.

I will go this far: We have made SOME progress in this area. But hey, eventually even a blind squirrel finds an acorn.

We might not have drafted Tillman.

The thing with Tillman, we have for all practical matters, have developed him.

He spent two years in the Seattle system, never getting above A+ league.

[Spy Fox]

These type of things are always small sample size, so it's tough to say we've totally turned it around just based on a few examples.

And for Gausman, Wright, and Wilson I'm optimistic but it's too soon to say. Gausman has already had more success than several members of the old "cavalry" and while he looks great this year overall, we don't know yet whether he'll reach his potential long term. Wright and Wilson have been doing their jobs decently but guys like Brad Bergesen, Daniel Cabrera, Matusz and Britton as starters, etc, had some runs of success too.

But yeah, if those three guys continue to progress the way they have appeared to this year then we could have a pretty decent and mostly homegrown rotation.

[bpilktree]

You can argue that we do not know enough on some of these guys but the same could be said with other teams. However you can not argue that we are developing more pitchers that have become major league players for their home team then anyone in the American League all this while having the best record in the American League the last 4 plus years. You are not going to get all the pitchers to be great major leaguers but this shows that we are as good as any team in the AL to atleast get them to the majors. Getting any pitcher to the majors is developing them more then other teams that have less guys.

[ORIOLE33]

Doesn't a certain pitcher that is now considered one of the best in the Majors who was once an O and is now pitching in Chicago, kind of end this discussion?

[LookitsPuck]

You can argue that we do not know enough on some of these guys but the same could be said with other teams. However you can not argue that we are developing more pitchers that have become major league players for their home team then anyone in the American League all this while having the best record in the American League the last 4 plus years. You are not going to get all the pitchers to be great major leaguers but this shows that we are as good as any team in the AL to atleast get them to the majors. Getting any pitcher to the majors is developing them more then other teams that have less guys.

Have we had any/many successful starters drafted, developed and starting for us successfully since 2012?

[bpilktree]

Have we had any/many successful starters drafted, developed and starting for us successfully since 2012?

That Guasman guy looks pretty good.

[Reboulet'sStache]

I would say based on subjective "feeling," no, we can't grow them. Wright and Wilson are the type of pitchers that every organization has or should have in spades. Gausman you could argue still isn't at where he should be BECAUSE of the organization. And Tillman is a number 3 starter. He really shouldn't be your crown jewel.

In terms of an objective analysis, you would need to look at how much of an investment have we made in pitching relative to other teams. Have we dedicated a disproportionate % of our draft picks and such into pitchers? Whether you are "good" or "bad" at something is relative to how much you invested in it. If we used every single one of our picks on pitchers, we would probably have a team filled with homegrown pitchers. But I wouldn't say that is indicative of us being "good" at developing them. You'd also have to look at how many pitching assets we give up. If our rate of drafting pitchers is the same as other teams, but we trade them at a higher rate, then even with the same washout rate as other teams, you would expect less pitching stars to come from the farm because we are trading them at a higher rate.