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How do we fix our starting pitching?

Nevermore

By Nevermore
in Orioles Talk

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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I want to know why the starting pitching issues can never be addressed during the offseason. Like Ubaldo, Gallardo was another panic move.

A big part of it is that Baltimore is not an attractive destination for pitchers.

Anyone with better offers take them.

Which leaves the O's forfeiting draft picks for flawed specimens.

I wonder how much damage the O's reputation in regards to physicals does to their recruiting efforts?

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weams Hangout Grand Counsel

weams

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A big part of it is that Baltimore is not an attractive destination for pitchers.

Anyone with better offers take them.

Which leaves the O's forfeiting draft picks for flawed specimens.

I wonder how much damage the O's reputation in regards to physicals does to their recruiting efforts?

Pitchers don't do well in Baltimore. And they tend to do well when they leave. It's not the coaching. It's not the physicals. Physicals and the threat of them have saved the team heartache. I guess you just stockpile all the arms you can and bring them up to fail or trade them before they do. It's not an easy fix.

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Aristotelian Hangout Grand Counsel

Aristotelian

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A big part of it is that Baltimore is not an attractive destination for pitchers.

Anyone with better offers take them.

Which leaves the O's forfeiting draft picks for flawed specimens.

I wonder how much damage the O's reputation in regards to physicals does to their recruiting efforts?

Obviously the O's physical did not deter Gallardo from negotiating with the Orioles. I wish it did. If it means we lose out on the likes of Latos and Balfour, then so be it.

I don't get this idea that the AL East/Camden Yards is a deterrent. BOS, TOR, and NYY get their share of free agent pitchers. The only question is whether we can come up with enough money to justify the risk. That is the Orioles problem--failure to develop within the organization, and then bargain hunting on the market. There is no evidence that the Orioles have even tried to pursue a top free agent pitcher in recent memory.

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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Obviously the O's physical did not deter Gallardo from negotiating with the Orioles. I wish it did. If it means we lose out on the likes of Latos and Balfour, then so be it.

I don't get this idea that the AL East/Camden Yards is a deterrent. BOS, TOR, and NYY get their share of free agent pitchers. The only question is whether we can come up with enough money to justify the risk. That is the Orioles problem--failure to develop within the organization, and then bargain hunting on the market. There is no evidence that the Orioles have even tried to pursue a top free agent pitcher in recent memory.

Gallardo would count as a flawed specimen.

I'm not at all sure he would have signed before the draft if the O's hadn't been involved.

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weams Hangout Grand Counsel

weams

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Obviously the O's physical did not deter Gallardo from negotiating with the Orioles. I wish it did. If it means we lose out on the likes of Latos and Balfour, then so be it.

I don't get this idea that the AL East/Camden Yards is a deterrent. BOS, TOR, and NYY get their share of free agent pitchers. The only question is whether we can come up with enough money to justify the risk. That is the Orioles problem--failure to develop within the organization, and then bargain hunting on the market. There is no evidence that the Orioles have even tried to pursue a top free agent pitcher in recent memory.

The physical found that he was damaged. And the deal was renegotiated based on that premise.

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Morgan423 Hangout Grand Counsel

Morgan423

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Chris Lee is on the DL.

Has anyone recently seen him pitch? I know he's been on the DL... but his stats this year are weird.

He's pitching to a 2.98 ERA in AA this year, with decent stats (a 1 WHIP, low walk rate 2 per 9 IP), but he's not missing bats and seems to be pitching to contact (his SO/9 is only 3.3).

Seems like he's figured out how to get AA hitters to make poor contact... BUT... would that translate to the majors? At all?

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Aristotelian Hangout Grand Counsel

Aristotelian

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Pitchers don't do well in Baltimore. And they tend to do well when they leave. It's not the coaching. It's not the physicals. Physicals and the threat of them have saved the team heartache. I guess you just stockpile all the arms you can and bring them up to fail or trade them before they do. It's not an easy fix.

Arrieta is a high visibility one who has gone on to success elsewhere. Are there others? There are also Jim Johnsons and Erik Bedards out there, it's just nobody remembers them. The O's have not had great pitchers, it is true, but what is the cause and what is the effect? If we actually brought in an elite pitcher who then failed, then I might believe in some kind of Camden Yards curse.

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srock Veteran All-Star

srock

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FoxSports has a piece up about Bill James saying a 3 man rotation can work.

This seems like a good fit for the Orioles as we don't have a true ace type (Kershaw) who you want to go 7-9 innings.

I think this what will happen in the playoffs btw.

Basically your 3 starters are limited to 80-90 pitches OR 5 innings, whichever comes first (no pitcher ever goes through a lineup a 3rd time). It actually works out that your top 3 pitchers throw a higher percentage of innings (over 162 games) then they do now.

8 man bullpen. Get as much out of the long men as possible then close it down with your 4 top relievers a the end.

Tillman

Guasman

Gallardo

Bundy

Worley

Jimenez

Wright/Despaigne/TMac/Wilson/etc

O'Day/whomever is up while on DL

Brach

Givens

Britton

The Orioles wouldn't have to make this official policy. Just start doing it slowly and as necessary. It could limit exposure for some of our middling starters.

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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FoxSports has a piece up about Bill James saying a 3 man rotation can work.

This seems like a good fit for the Orioles as we don't have a true ace type (Kershaw) who you want to go 7-9 innings.

I think this what will happen in the playoffs btw.

Basically your 3 starters are limited to 80-90 pitches OR 5 innings, whichever comes first (no pitcher ever goes through a lineup a 3rd time). It actually works out that your top 3 pitchers throw a higher percentage of innings (over 162 games) then they do now.

8 man bullpen. Get as much out of the long men as possible then close it down with your 4 top relievers a the end.

Tillman

Guasman

Gallardo

Bundy

Worley

Jimenez

Wright/Despaigne/TMac/Wilson/etc

O'Day/whomever is up while on DL

Brach

Givens

Britton

The Orioles wouldn't have to make this official policy. Just start doing it slowly and as necessary. It could limit exposure for some of our middling starters.

You go ahead and tell Tillman he isn't going to be eligible for any more wins during his time with the O's.

Don't get me wrong I love the idea of not letting hitters get a third look at a starter. I've floated similar ideas in the past.

But you are going to have a tough road getting the starters on board.

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