Could we sign Wieters back for something like 3/35? Should we?

[LookitsPuck]

There's never any shortage of catchers available for 1-year deals. Get one, keep Joseph as the backup and allocate assets elsewhere.

Agreed.

I actually would like Geovany Soto. Solid defensive catcher. About average as a pitch framer. Was cheap this year ($2.8m). So think you can pick him for around $4-$6m/year.

[DrungoHazewood]

I think game winning hits, is a very important and tangible thing, some people can rise to the occasion and sometimes those half a dozen games or more, can mean the difference between 1 and 2 place in the division.

1. Game winning hits are real, and important.

2. A skill in producing game winning hits above and beyond your overall ability to hit is almost certainly not real. Or if it is real it's of very small magnitude and dwarfed in importance by overall hitting ability.

For more than 30 years sabermetricians have searched high and low for clutch hitting ability and have found only slightly more evidence for its significant existence than for the Loch Ness Monster.

[DrungoHazewood]

And no way do the Orioles offer the qualifying offer. That would be really stupid in my opinion.

It was 100% the right choice last year. But after his previous willingness to accept, his 2016 being worth far less than $16M, his age clicking forward one year... why wouldn't he accept a 1/16 deal? There's little chance of the draft pick this time around.

[TouchemAll]

Well Matt proved he likes here, so why not try another one year, or 2yr contract at the most.

Joseph's bat was beyond horrible.

[Aristotelian]

Even if "game winning hits" is a real skill, the number of opportunities, let alone successes, is very small. Bottom line, Wieters still has a .290+ OBP and .689 OPS over 99 games and 340 ABs. Those numbers over the long haul are what determines Wieters value even if they did not lead directly to a win or loss. A couple of game winning hits should not affect his overall value.

[DrungoHazewood]

Even if "game winning hits" is a real skill, the number of opportunities, let alone successes, is very small. Bottom line, Wieters still has a .290+ OBP and .689 OPS over 99 games and 340 ABs. Those numbers over the long haul are what determines Wieters value even if they did not lead directly to a win or loss. A couple of game winning hits should not affect his overall value.

Remember when GWRBI were a thing, and people quickly figured out that a lot of them were on grounders to second that scored a run in the top of the 3rd of a game that eventually was 13-2?

[ChipTait]

Remember when GWRBI were a thing, and people quickly figured out that a lot of them were on grounders to second that scored a run in the top of the 3rd of a game that eventually was 13-2?

I distinctly remember Jon Miller echoing the same sentiment back in the day...

[Redskins Rick]

Remember when GWRBI were a thing, and people quickly figured out that a lot of them were on grounders to second that scored a run in the top of the 3rd of a game that eventually was 13-2?

In Wieter's case, I believe most of them have been bombs, like the one that landed on Eutaw street, that wasn't a cheap fielders choice that scored the man from third.

[atomic]

Remember when GWRBI were a thing, and people quickly figured out that a lot of them were on grounders to second that scored a run in the top of the 3rd of a game that eventually was 13-2?

Well that is still good. Sure beats striking out when the game was tied in the third and no run being scored.

[atomic]

There's never any shortage of catchers available for 1-year deals. Get one, keep Joseph as the backup and allocate assets elsewhere.

I would not keep Joseph. That is where you plan ended for me.

[DrungoHazewood]

Well Matt proved he likes here, so why not try another one year, or 2yr contract at the most. Joseph's bat was beyond horrible.

How much does Matt like it here? Enough to sign a market-valued contract? Even using favorable assumptions it's hard to see Wieters' real market value being equal to the value of the QO over two years. I think a reasonable contract for him would be something like 1/8 or 2/13.

[DrungoHazewood]

Well that is still good. Sure beats striking out when the game was tied in the third and no run being scored.

Okay, but do you think that was the point? Giving random groundouts the same weight as a walkoff homer? There's a reason even MLB abandoned GWRBI after a few years. It added nothing to the discussion besides confusion.

[DrungoHazewood]

In Wieter's case, I believe most of them have been bombs, like the one that landed on Eutaw street, that wasn't a cheap fielders choice that scored the man from third.

If you can divine magic clutch ability out of this you're better than me:

[table]

[thead][tr][th]I[/th][th]Split[/th][th]G[/th][th]GS[/th][th]PA[/th][th]AB[/th][th]R[/th][th]H[/th][th]2B[/th][th]3B[/th][th]HR[/th][th]RBI[/th][th]SB[/th][th]CS[/th][th]BB[/th][th]SO[/th][th]BA[/th][th]OBP[/th][th]SLG[/th][th]OPS[/th][th]TB[/th][th]GDP[/th][th]HBP[/th][th]SH[/th][th]SF[/th][th]IBB[/th][th]ROE[/th][th]BAbip[/th][th]tOPS+[/th][/tr][/thead]

[tr][td][/td][td]2 outs RISP[/td][td]346[/td][td][/td][td]422[/td][td]371[/td][td]92[/td][td]81[/td][td]15[/td][td]0[/td][td]13[/td][td]119[/td][td]1[/td][td]0[/td][td]49[/td][td]93[/td][td].218[/td][td].313[/td][td].364[/td][td].677[/td][td]135[/td][td]0[/td][td]2[/td][td]0[/td][td]0[/td][td]14[/td][td]2[/td][td].257[/td][td]85[/td][/tr]

[tr][td][/td][td]Late Close[/td][td]432[/td][td][/td][td]576[/td][td]519[/td][td]57[/td][td]140[/td][td]21[/td][td]2[/td][td]22[/td][td]80[/td][td]2[/td][td]0[/td][td]48[/td][td]122[/td][td].270[/td][td].329[/td][td].445[/td][td].774[/td][td]231[/td][td]15[/td][td]1[/td][td]1[/td][td]7[/td][td]8[/td][td]3[/td][td].309[/td][td]110[/td][/tr]

[tr][td][/td][td]Tie Game[/td][td]527[/td][td][/td][td]830[/td][td]759[/td][td]59[/td][td]191[/td][td]45[/td][td]0[/td][td]26[/td][td]101[/td][td]1[/td][td]0[/td][td]59[/td][td]173[/td][td].252[/td][td].305[/td][td].414[/td][td].719[/td][td]314[/td][td]19[/td][td]3[/td][td]0[/td][td]9[/td][td]5[/td][td]3[/td][td].290[/td][td]95[/td][/tr]

[tr][td][/td][td]Within 1 R[/td][td]729[/td][td][/td][td]1672[/td][td]1508[/td][td]158[/td][td]386[/td][td]73[/td][td]2[/td][td]59[/td][td]208[/td][td]2[/td][td]1[/td][td]138[/td][td]334[/td][td].256[/td][td].318[/td][td].424[/td][td].742[/td][td]640[/td][td]38[/td][td]7[/td][td]1[/td][td]18[/td][td]14[/td][td]11[/td][td].289[/td][td]101[/td][/tr]

[tr][td][/td][td]Within 2 R[/td][td]803[/td][td][/td][td]2270[/td][td]2041[/td][td]218[/td][td]527[/td][td]96[/td][td]3[/td][td]74[/td][td]287[/td][td]6[/td][td]2[/td][td]194[/td][td]427[/td][td].258[/td][td].322[/td][td].417[/td][td].739[/td][td]851[/td][td]50[/td][td]9[/td][td]1[/td][td]25[/td][td]19[/td][td]15[/td][td].289[/td][td]101[/td][/tr]

[tr][td][/td][td]Within 3 R[/td][td]833[/td][td][/td][td]2662[/td][td]2400[/td][td]260[/td][td]618[/td][td]115[/td][td]5[/td][td]87[/td][td]344[/td][td]7[/td][td]2[/td][td]220[/td][td]512[/td][td].258[/td][td].319[/td][td].418[/td][td].737[/td][td]1004[/td][td]61[/td][td]11[/td][td]1[/td][td]30[/td][td]20[/td][td]17[/td][td].290[/td][td]100[/td][/tr]

[tr][td][/td][td]Within 4 R[/td][td]848[/td][td][/td][td]2943[/td][td]2654[/td][td]292[/td][td]679[/td][td]131[/td][td]5[/td][td]95[/td][td]375[/td][td]7[/td][td]2[/td][td]244[/td][td]566[/td][td].256[/td][td].318[/td][td].416[/td][td].734[/td][td]1105[/td][td]67[/td][td]12[/td][td]1[/td][td]32[/td][td]20[/td][td]19[/td][td].288[/td][td]99[/td][/tr]

[tr][td][/td][td]Margin 4 R[/td][td]252[/td][td][/td][td]431[/td][td]397[/td][td]50[/td][td]102[/td][td]23[/td][td]0[/td][td]17[/td][td]49[/td][td]0[/td][td]0[/td][td]33[/td][td]71[/td][td].257[/td][td].313[/td][td].443[/td][td].757[/td][td]176[/td][td]11[/td][td]0[/td][td]0[/td][td]1[/td][td]2[/td][td]3[/td][td].274[/td][td]104[/td][/tr]

[tr][td][/td][td]Ahead[/td][td]501[/td][td][/td][td]1164[/td][td]1018[/td][td]144[/td][td]249[/td][td]50[/td][td]3[/td][td]36[/td][td]160[/td][td]4[/td][td]2[/td][td]121[/td][td]187[/td][td].245[/td][td].323[/td][td].406[/td][td].729[/td][td]413[/td][td]26[/td][td]6[/td][td]1[/td][td]18[/td][td]15[/td][td]7[/td][td].262[/td][td]99[/td][/tr]

[tr][td][/td][td]Behind[/td][td]571[/td][td][/td][td]1380[/td][td]1274[/td][td]139[/td][td]341[/td][td]59[/td][td]2[/td][td]50[/td][td]163[/td][td]2[/td][td]0[/td][td]97[/td][td]277[/td][td].268[/td][td].320[/td][td].435[/td][td].754[/td][td]554[/td][td]33[/td][td]3[/td][td]0[/td][td]6[/td][td]2[/td][td]12[/td][td].305[/td][td]104[/td][/tr]

[/table]

[FlipTheBird]

I would not keep Joseph. That is where you plan ended for me.

He's a cheap and serviceable backup catcher. This year has been a bit of a mess, between irregular playing time and his injury. I would strongly suspect that, given a backup/platoon role next year, he'd produce far more like he has the last two seasons. Which, while far from great, will get the job done from a reserve role.

[FlipTheBird]

In Wieter's case, I believe most of them have been bombs, like the one that landed on Eutaw street, that wasn't a cheap fielders choice that scored the man from third.

I feel like "Most" is an extremely unfair way to describe this.