Still Need OF Help - Pagan?

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, Babypowder said:

The Cubs struck out more, I hear they did ok.

You know I don't disagree with the overall point you are making but the Cubs' pitchers came to bat a lot more often than Oriole pitchers.  Probably doesn't make them the best choice of comparison. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, waroriole said:

5 straight winning seasons, but yeah they're not trying to build a sustained winner...?

Who had five straight winning seasons?

[pastorfan]

1 hour ago, ScGO's said:

2 years 10 mil with mutual club an player option for a third year at 10 mil.  Pack in some production incentives to make the 2 years potentially worth 15 mil

 

We were 20th in walks;

1st in runners left in scoring position;

Last in stolen bases;

23rd in sac flys;

28th is sacrfices;

23rd in OBP;

Pagan would help with a lot of these numbers.

 

[George Zuverink]

15 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

You know I don't disagree with the overall point you are making but the Cubs' pitchers came to bat a lot more often than Oriole pitchers.  Probably doesn't make them the best choice of comparison. 

Good point. We were 5th worse in the AL, 156 less K's than the worst, Tampa Bay.  Also behind Toronto, Minnesota, and Houston.  

[Frobby]

4 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

You know I don't disagree with the overall point you are making but the Cubs' pitchers came to bat a lot more often than Oriole pitchers.  Probably doesn't make them the best choice of comparison. 

Agreed.    Cubs pitchers struck out 154 times.    Ours struck out 12 times.   Their position players struck out in 20.0% of plate appearances, ours 21.6%.

in the AL, we were 5th in strikeouts, and there were three teams who had more than 100 more strikeouts than the Orioles.  

[Number5]

I remain puzzled at the amount of support Pagan enjoys on this board.  For the life of me, I just don't get it.

Angel Pagan turns 36 in July.  He doesn't hit LHP well at all.  He isn't a good answer for the short side of a platoon.  I see no reason to play him over Jones, Smith, Kim, or Trumbo vs. RHP, so his decent hitting side would be wasted on the bench in Baltimore, unless you would want to sit one of the other better-hitting guys.  He hasn't been a plus defensive outfielder since 2010, and has been substandard in the majority of the past six years defensively.  He has shown that he really can't be counted on to stay healthy and on the field.  His most games played he has managed in the past four seasons is 133 games, and in 2 of those seasons he was below 100.  And his salary history makes me think he may cost more than a lot of people expect.  Please tell me how Pagan is a fit for the Orioles.  I'm really not seeing what he brings to the table.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/paganan01.shtml

[Frobby]

20 minutes ago, pastorfan said:

 

We were 20th in walks;

 

1st in runners left in scoring position;

 

Last in stolen bases;

 

23rd in sac flys;

 

28th is sacrfices;

 

23rd in OBP;

 

Pagan would help with a lot of these numbers.

 

 

Where are you getting that RISP number?    I doubt it's correct.   

[El Gordo]

Ranking RF defense:

Jones

Rickard

Davis

Smith

Trumbo

LF defense:

Jones

Rickard

Smith

Kim

Trumbo

[ChuckS]

Where is the room on the roster exactly for another outfielder?  

Given the current configuration, I don't see how we keep the Rule V guy Tavarez without sending Rickard or Mancini to Triple A.  So how do we sign and keep another outfielder on top of that.  I'm already counting five outfielders, not including the Rule V guy (Jones, Smith, Kim, Trumbo, and Rickard).  

[DrungoHazewood]

23 minutes ago, pastorfan said:

 

We were 20th in walks;

 

1st in runners left in scoring position;

 

Last in stolen bases;

 

23rd in sac flys;

 

28th is sacrfices;

 

23rd in OBP;

 

Pagan would help with a lot of these numbers.

 

 

Pagan walked 42 times in 543 PAs.  The Orioles, per 543 PAs, walked 42 times.

Batting with runners in scoring position isn't a skill, but even if it was I don't know how Pagan's .719 OPS with RISP would help.

Last year Pagan stole 15 bases and was a +4 base runner, so I suppose that's something.

Last year Pagan had zero sac hits, and three sac flies.  The average Oriole in 2016 had three sac flies per 543 PAs.

Pagan's .334 OBP was better than the O's mark, but it was in the NL and he turns 36 in July.

Pagan was a slightly above average LFer last year, but hasn't played RF in six years and has been well below average in center since 2012.

Even on a 1/5 type deal to be a platoon LFer I think he's an incremental upgrade at best.

[crawjo]

I think the problem now is that they can't really guarantee Pagan playing time or that he will be a regular starter. This was the problem with signing Trumbo, it meant that Kim would have to play in the outfield. Add in Smith, and why would Pagan sign with Baltimore? He'd be a fourth outfielder. 

[Spy Fox]

I'd like to sign Pagan. He adds depth and decreases the innings that the weaker fielders of Kim, Smith,  and especially Trumbo would have to play in the OF. I'd prefer Pagan over a guy like Bourn simply because I think he's a better all-around player at this point. But if they sign Bourn for the same role, with I agree with some others may be a more likely option, that would still help.

[Aristotelian]

I would be shocked to see Pagan. That would turn Smith into a $7M bench player. The only addition that makes sense is a RH platoon RF with strong defense.

[El Gordo]

11 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

I would be shocked to see Pagan. That would turn Smith into a $7M bench player. The only addition that makes sense is a RH platoon RF with strong defense.

Smith and Pagan seem to be comparable defensively in LF. Smith hits for higher OBP and more power.

[Yardball85]

2 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Who had five straight winning seasons?

Not the O's. Barely, BARELY avoided a losing season in 2015. 81-81 does not equal a winning season.