Manny projected to be worth $449 million over first ten free-agent seasons

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Sessh said:

An organization wanting a championship will do whatever it takes. I don't think this organization is doing that. Paying CD what we did doesn't say that, paying Trumbo what they did for half a season doesn't say that, relying on rule five picks and getting lucky finding nuggets that no one else wants as opposed to building a strong farm system doesn't say that and sticking with a manager who has never, in over 20 years as manager, shown anything that would suggest he is capable of leading a team to a championship. It's not a recipe for championship success.

You're right about 2014, though. They had a real chance in 2014 and did nothing with it. I still remember how the team looked like they gave up after letting both home games slip away from them. Then, the Royals taunt them in the media and the Orioles didn't have the same intensity in KC. They should have done better that year for sure.

What does that even mean?

I would think that trading a blue chip pitching prospect for a weapon like Andrew Miller would count.

Or is this just wanting a 200M payroll?

Exactly what manager would you want instead of Buck and how would you suggest the O's acquire them?

 

The 2014 team did a fair impersonation of going all it.

 

Mind you I do agree with various specific points you made.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Spy Fox said:

I'm not sure what Vegas said. But there's a pretty strong argument that we were the WS favorites at the beginning of that LCS round after Washington, Detroit, and both LA teams got knocked out. 

That was one crazy BABIP series against the Royals.

[Orioles0615]

30 minutes ago, Sessh said:

I don't think PA will allow Manny to be traded. It's right in line with how this organization thinks. This team peaked in 2014 and couldn't even win a single ALCS game. They are not good enough to win a championship and I'm not even convinced that is their goal. Being a strong regular season team is fine, but it means absolutely nothing if that team can't win when it matters in October. Building a championship team should be the goal and this team isn't. Britton should have been dealt and Manny should be shopped at the deadline, but I don't believe anyone in this FO has the guts to make the hard decisions for the future. This team can't win in October when it really matters which indicates something is missing somewhere.

I really doubt that people will look back from the coming dark ages on this five-year window this team had from 2012-2017 and really honestly say they are happy with what was accomplished. No championships, no WS appearances, no ALCS wins and exited every postseason appearance with a losing record, but hey we were really good in the regular season! This team should have done better during these years though this year isn't over yet, but it could have been better. It should have been better. Showalter is not capable of leading a team to the promised land, but in Baltimore it's fine so long as it's better than the 2000's and that's a pretty low bar to set. I want a team in Baltimore, top to bottom, capable of winning a championship and it's not here. So, you can either acknowledge it and maximize returns towards another chance in the future now or you can wait too long to do anything and screw yourself over for another 5+ years. I don't think the FO will do what's best for the organization in the long run and I don't think this window was taken advantage of the way it should have been.

 

I agree 100%. Are the winning seasons nice, yes of course, but I want them to play in the world series and I am tired of the "shucksy-do" gosh golly remember the dark days attitude, 

 

[Orioles0615]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

What does that even mean?

I would think that trading a blue chip pitching prospect for a weapon like Andrew Miller would count.

Or is this just wanting a 200M payroll?

Exactly what manager would you want instead of Buck and how would you suggest the O's acquire them?

 

The 2014 team did a fair impersonation of going all it.

 

Mind you I do agree with various specific points you made.

I think they are talking about post 2014 but I see your point. They peaked in 2014 and could of had a much better offseason that year. 2015 was a disaster and they barely got to .500 when the one the final 4 games in a row 

[tntoriole]

15 minutes ago, Sessh said:

An organization wanting a championship will do whatever it takes. I don't think this organization is doing that. Paying CD what we did doesn't say that, paying Trumbo what they did for half a season doesn't say that, relying on rule five picks and getting lucky finding nuggets that no one else wants as opposed to building a strong farm system doesn't say that and sticking with a manager who has never, in over 20 years as manager, shown anything that would suggest he is capable of leading a team to a championship. It's not a recipe for championship success.

You're right about 2014, though. They had a real chance in 2014 and did nothing with it. I still remember how the team looked like they gave up after letting both home games slip away from them. Then, the Royals taunt them in the media and the Orioles didn't have the same intensity in KC. They should have done better that year for sure.

It is fine to second guess, but there are many other teams, that would have traded their 2012-2017 journey for ours.   And while I know you would as the owner and GM like to think that your bold moves of not signing CD or Trumbo and trajding Manny last offseason would then magically pay off in making good signings or getting great results from trades and prospects...well, I just have my doubts whether amateurs could have done much better.  

So while fantasy ideas and their hypothetical outcomes are fun, they don't have to be held accountable and are really not able to be held to any metric at all.  Meanwhile guys like DD and Buck are held to real world results every year they step out there and work for Potter which is a whole different kettle of fish.  

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, andrewochs615 said:

I think they are talking about post 2014 but I see your point. They peaked in 2014 and could of had a much better offseason that year. 2015 was a disaster and they barely got to .500 when the one the final 4 games in a row 

As far as in season moves the 2014 team was the only one I felt was good enough to warrant making a big move to support.

[Can_of_corn]

8 minutes ago, andrewochs615 said:

 

I agree 100%. Are the winning seasons nice, yes of course, but I want them to play in the world series and I am tired of the "shucksy-do" gosh golly remember the dark days attitude, 

 

I am fully expecting a quick return to the dark days.

[Sessh]

11 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

What does that even mean?

I would think that trading a blue chip pitching prospect for a weapon like Andrew Miller would count.

Or is this just wanting a 200M payroll?

Exactly what manager would you want instead of Buck and how would you suggest the O's acquire them?

 

The 2014 team did a fair impersonation of going all it.

 

Mind you I do agree with various specific points you made.

I'm not privy to all the potential managers that would be available, but I know Buck isn't the guy to do it and would be exploring other options. How many draft picks have we given up? I am more talking about since 2014 and especially after 2015. As I said, I think we were in a pretty good position in 2014. I'm saying the team peaked in that year and I seriously doubt this team will get another chance like that with the way things are currently. I don't want a $200M payroll, no. That's not reasonable, but why is this team intent on avoiding the international market? Why have we given away so many draft picks and traded so many prospects away in really, really bad deals? I don't entirely blame DD as I would bet PA is back to his old tricks to some extent, but no, I don;t believe the team is doing everything it can and it is mostly related to neglecting the farm and not getting involved in the international market. Relying so heavily on the Rule 5 draft and signing castoffs of other teams does not give me confidence nor does it make me feel that we are "doing everything we can"; we're not. I think this FO is content staying right where it is for as long as possible. Could be wrong of course, but it's just how I feel.

[Can_of_corn]

You certainly are not going to get an argument from me on the draft picks.

My count.

Comp balance A

Two comp balance B

First round for Ubaldo

First round for Gallardo

Second round for Cruz (recouped as a first round)

First round for Davis

Possible first round for Trumbo

Possible first round for Hardy

[24fps]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'll take full retail over the substantial markup you get on most big name free agent contracts.

 

I'm a surplus value man myself.

Anything north of 10/300 for Manny and I would move on without looking back.  And no, I don't expect him to be an Oriole for his entire career given that point of view.

[Can_of_corn]

9 minutes ago, 24fps said:

I'm a surplus value man myself.

Anything north of 10/300 for Manny and I would move on without looking back.  And no, I don't expect him to be an Oriole for his entire career given that point of view.

That is where I am at as well.  Nice round numbers.

[ORIOLE33]

$30M per is still a lot for someone who's never had a 100 RBI season and is a career 282 avg hitter.

[Orioles0615]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

I am fully expecting a quick return to the dark days.

So do I, which is why I wanted to somewhat retool over the past couple of years and ideally retool around Machado and sign him long term. But thats a pipe dream 

[Can_of_corn]

20 minutes ago, ORIOLE33 said:

$30M per is still a lot for someone who's never had a 100 RBI season and is a career 282 avg hitter.

It is a lot of money if you are still hung up on RBIs and Batting Average.

[ORIOLE33]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

It is a lot of money if you are still hung up on RBIs and Batting Average.

Why do you pay a player that much? You don't pay someone that kind of money for defense and to draw walks.