Move Manny to SS

[Lucky_13]

Just now, El Gordo said:

More offense isn't gonna help that much It almost never does.

Isn't he a good defender?

[El Gordo]

Just now, Lucky_13 said:

Isn't he a good defender?

He's no where near Manny at 3B. Read Paul Folk's post.

[PaulFolk]

7 minutes ago, El Gordo said:

He's no where near Manny at 3B. Read Paul Folk's post.

My post didn't really have anything to do with defense. Freese is actually a guy I would move Manny to SS for.

[Lucky_13]

He's signed through 2018 with an option for 2019. Hardy replacement for next year and that 364 OBP would look good in our lineup. 

[wildcard]

3 minutes ago, PaulFolk said:

I don't think changing Manny's defensive position will improve his bat. And I don't see why you would shift him off the position he's played for more than 90% of his major league career when you don't have a legitimate option to replace him (with all due respect to Drew Dosch and Steve Wilkerson().

If the Orioles had a legitimate prospect ready to play 3B, or if they acquired a 3B in a trade (like Maikel Franco), then sure, move Manny to SS. But there's no point in doing it for the likes of Dosch or Wilkerson.

Do you think either Dosch or Wilkerson could put up a 700 OPS with the O's?   If they could they would be a 150 point improvement over what the O's are currently playing at SS.  And if Manny starts hitting because the change got him going he could improve by 150 points. also.

Defensively both Dosch and Wilkerson have good range for a 3B.  Not Manny range but good range.   They will commit more errors but the boost in offense may be worth it.

I don't really see a down side.   If the O's try it and don't like what they see they can switch  back.  But I think it has a chance to help the offense.

[wildcard]

18 minutes ago, El Gordo said:

More offense isn't gonna help that much It almost never does.

The O's would have won in 9 if they would have had better offense last night.

[Say O!]

This is as much (or more) of a 2018 decision than 2017 alone question. If you move Manny to SS this year, then play him at SS in 2018 too and find viable 3B outside the Organization. 

[El Gordo]

16 minutes ago, PaulFolk said:

My post didn't really have anything to do with defense. Freese is actually a guy I would move Manny to SS for.

I don't see why? Freese is about league average with the glove and Manny currently has an UZR/150 of 18. Freese has a .732 OPS. not much of an improvement over Manny and as you said yourself you don't think his bat has much to do with were he plays. Plus what do you give up for Freese?

[PaulFolk]

18 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Do you think either Dosch or Wilkerson could put up a 700 OPS with the O's?   If they could they would be a 150 point improvement over what the O's are currently playing at SS.  And if Manny starts hitting because the change got him going he could improve by 150 points. also.

No, I don't. I'm not sure why you think they could, either.

Dosch has a career .729 OPS in the minors. I know he hit well in a nine-game sample size at Bowie this year, but let's see him hit a little better at Norfolk before we start talking about moving Manny Machado for him. And Wilkerson? His career OPS in the minors is .705. Again, he's hitting well this year, but he only has 35 games above Single-A ball.

Tejada and Janish aren't good hitters, either, but I think Tejada has just as good a chance to put up a .700 OPS as Dosch or Wilkerson do. And Janish is the best defender of the bunch.

You'll also have to explain to me how moving Machado from 3B to SS could improve his OPS by 150 points. One has nothing to do with the other.

[El Gordo]

The O's aren't struggling because the SS isn't hitting, they are struggling because the SP has been terrible and the bullpen has been injured. Moving manny to SS is deck chairs on the Titanic.

[PaulFolk]

4 minutes ago, El Gordo said:

I don't see why? Freese is about league average with the glove and Manny currently has an UZR/150 of 18. Freese has a .732 OPS. not much of an improvement over Manny and as you said yourself you don't think his bat has much to do with were he plays. Plus what do you give up for Freese?

I wouldn't give up much for Freese, but he'd help the lineup. He at least has a track record of being a decent hitter and fielder -- he's a much more established product than unknown fringe prospects like Dosch and Wilkerson. And if the Orioles are committed to going for it this season (even if I don't agree with that approach), then Freese might be a good cheap acquisition.

My basic philosophy is that if you're going to move Manny to SS, it should be for a capable, veteran 3B like Freese, or for a blue-chip prospect. Otherwise, keep him at 3B.

[Lucky_13]

1 minute ago, El Gordo said:

The O's aren't struggling because the SS isn't hitting, they are struggling because the SP has been terrible and the bullpen has been injured. Moving manny to SS is deck chairs on the Titanic.

Yeah the pitching sucks but they currently have three black holes in the lineup with Manny, whoever at shortstop, and Kim in left. 

[El Gordo]

Just now, Lucky_13 said:

Yeah the pitching sucks but they currently have three black holes in the lineup with Manny, whoever at shortstop, and Kim in left. 

If we had league average SP we'd be fine with the current offense, as sunderperforming as it is.

[wildcard]

15 minutes ago, El Gordo said:

If we had league average SP we'd be fine with the current offense, as sunderperforming as it is.

But we don't have  league average SP and that is hard to change.   TOR starter are near impossible for the O's ro acquire in season.   They might add another 5th starter at the deadline.    But improving the offense might be possible.  

[Lucky_13]

Freese is an upgrade over 520 OPS hardy not Machado