POLL: Yay or nay on Hellickson trade?

[billw76]

I still don't really understand the move or think it was needed, but we gave up nothing of any value so I can't say it's that bad of a move.

One day I hope this franchise starts to spend internationally, I think giving away the bonus slots bothers me more than anything. We could improve the farm so much just by spending internationally, but the organization simply refuses to do it, so we are stuck depending only on the draft and the normal AAAA types we get in return for the slots. Hellickson will at least contribute in some way at the ML level.

[Frobby]

6 hours ago, Nevermore said:

If nothing else, Kim gets to escape from a manager who hates him for some unknown reason.

Kim had a .593 OPS and was worth -0.4 rWAR this year.    I realize he didn't get a lot of playing time, but he didn't earn it, either.    I hope Philly plays him every day so we can see how he does when given more playing time, but I'm losing no sleep over how Buck used him (or didn't).

[Frobby]

I'm firmly in the meh category.     I was excited by Cleavinger a few years ago, but he's done nothing the last two years to make me think he's anything but a fringe prospect.   Kim was likely gone in three weeks when Santander has to be activated.  Hellickson is nothing to write home about, but he's probably better than 3 or 4 of our starters.    As to the international slots, you can take issue with why we don't use them, but since the organization clearly doesn't use them, I just want them to get some value for them.    

The whole thing smacks of rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic, though.     If this is our only move (which I doubt), I'll wonder why the hell they bothered.    

[weams]

7 hours ago, PaulFolk said:

Now that the trade is official -- Hyun Soo Kim, Garrett Cleavinger, and international signing bonus slots for Jeremy Hellickson and cash -- what's your verdict?

The games must be played. So yes. No brainer for the cost. 

[Luke-OH]

So, here's my take on this.

Hellickson is a nothing addition, pointless, not helpful.  

Kim doesn't have any value.

Cleavinger has very little value, I've watched him pitch and he's got the control issues of Tanner Scott and Liranzo with no where near the stuff.  He's the 27th O's prospect according to some publications, I can assure you, he's not currently one of our best 30.

The international slot has value.

So basically we paid (small price, but an overpay for nothing) for public relations.  The spin that we are still trying to help this team win this season. Saving face by not just giving the international slot for nothing (I guarantee you we'll hear how we used our slot money to add "a quality big league player").

The only positive here is maybe this will allow the O's to limit Bundy's innings (although I'd just let Aquino or Ynoa take those innings, so I guess this is also another way to save face with casual fans).

Edit: My hope is that this is to serve as cover for the team selling off more value ML assets such as Brach, Britton, or others.

[ReclaimTheCrown]

This isn't a calamity of a trade by any stretch, but quite simply it comes down to this for me: we gave up two things that might be useful in future seasons (though obviously we know we aren't using bonus slots) for something that won't be. I get it, Cleavinger has not been good this year, but if there's even a fair chance he could be a Donnie Hart type (cost-controlled, usable LH reliever), there was little reason to give him up. I'm not loving the "innings eater" argument either; frankly, the outcome of the rest of the season doesn't really matter at this point, so I'd prefer to test out guys in AAA (specifically someone like Aquino) to see if he could be a back end type over an extended period. 

Again, not a catastrophe, just a head scratcher.

[backwardsk]

I voted meh.  But it would have made more sense to DFA Kim, keep Cleavinger, and use the slot money in a different trade.

[Orsulak4Prez]

7 hours ago, Diehard_O's_Fan said:

The Orioles might look at Jeremy as a open try out. The Orioles need two or three new starters next year. If Jeremy pitches well then maybe they will sign him as a FA and bring him back. That would be totally fine with me.

That's a good way to look at it. I'm not against the player, I was really confused as to why we would be dealing prospects for rentals. Maybe there's more than meets the eye with this trade. 

[bobmc]

If this ends the sunflower seed torrents then it is a good deal.....;-)  I wish Hyun Soo well but don't think we need another nibbler on the bump IMO.  In other news, the deck chairs on Gilligan's craft are rearranged so we're good.

[ChuckS]

I did not have Kim on my list of guys who could be traded simply because I thought his value was close to zero at this point.

Although this does nothing for us in the long term it has the potential to very slightly improve us in the short term. I say potential but I fully expect Hellickson to get lit up here over the next two months. Still rather see him out there than Ubaldo or Tillman. 

Will not lose any sleep over losing Cleavinger. 

[Luke-OH]

8 minutes ago, ChuckS said:

I did not have Kim on my list of guys who could be traded simply because I thought his value was close to zero at this point.

Although this does nothing for us in the long term it has the potential to very slightly improve us in the short term. I say potential but I fully expect Hellickson to get lit up here over the next two months. Still rather see him out there than Ubaldo or Tillman. 

Will not lose any sleep over losing Cleavinger. 

I'd rather see Ubaldo, at least he strikes guys out.

[bobmc]

8 hours ago, RZNJ said:

We gave up meh and got meh back.   It's not worth a nay or a yey.  It's one of the most unimportant trades of all time. 

So more like "Oy vey"?

[bobmc]

8 hours ago, spiritof66 said:

I was just thinking the same thing about the Phillies and Kim. My guess is they will look at him as a pinch-hitter/4th OFer, and figure that if they like what he does for them and he's happy with his playing time and his Phillies impressions they can sign him cheap.

 

One could also look at Buck not as a "hater" but as one who knows he won't use Kim and send him away to shrewd Andy who will deal with him the right way.  Win win for both.

 

And now we really have something to talk about as meaningless as it is...

[SteveA]

One thing about this deal...it cements the fact that the Orioles do not in any way think of Wilson, Wright, Aquino, Ynoa, or Asher as valuable in any way.  First we continue to trot out three of the very worst starters in all of MLB every five days without giving any of those guys a legitimate shot.  And now we trade (and spend payroll $$) for someone who is mediocre at best and plug him in ahead of them as well.

I realize none of them are excelling in AAA.

But if there was any faint glimmer of hope that one of those five might be considered a future nugget, it is gone now.

And for those of you who keep pointing out that Hellickson's ERA would put him 2nd or 3rd in our rotation or whatever it is, keep in mind that he has pitched the vast majority of his games vs NL lineups with pitchers hitting.  I think you typically need to add half a run or so when taking into account AL vs NL.  I fully expect a 5+ ERA.

[Luke-OH]

3 minutes ago, SteveA said:

One thing about this deal...it cements the fact that the Orioles do not in any way think of Wilson, Wright, Aquino, Ynoa, or Asher as valuable in any way.  First we continue to trot out three of the very worst starters in all of MLB every five days without giving any of those guys a legitimate shot.  And now we trade (and spend payroll $$) for someone who is mediocre at best and plug him in ahead of them as well.

I realize none of them are excelling in AAA.

But if there was any faint glimmer of hope that one of those five might be considered a future nugget, it is gone now.

And for those of you who keep pointing out that Hellickson's ERA would put him 2nd or 3rd in our rotation or whatever it is, keep in mind that he has pitched the vast majority of his games vs NL lineups with pitchers hitting.  I think you typically need to add half a run or so when taking into account AL vs NL.  I fully expect a 5+ ERA.

Yeah, it doesn't make any sense to me, Aquino is better than Hellickson IMO.