Dan places the blame for losing year squarely on the starters

[PaulFolk]

1 minute ago, TradeAngelos said:

This thread progressed about EXACTLY how I thought it would. 

You people just can't handle the truth, which is exactly what Duquette said. 

"He signed Ubaldo to a 4 year deal! He signed other scrap heap pitchers that regressed to the mean too it is all his fault!"

HE IS FORCED TO SIGN THIS JUNK YEAR AFTER YEAR. GET THAT THROUGH YOUR THICK SKULLS. 

He literally doesn't have a choice in the matter. Tough position to be in as a GM I would say. I wonder if Cashman or Dombrowski operate under the same restrictions from ownership?

First of all, you could easily make your point without the hostility and insults. There's no need for any of that.

To your point, I think we all know that Duquette operates under some restrictions from ownership that other GMs don't face. It's why the Orioles will never be in the market for a high-priced ace.

But even with that in mind, his track record with pitchers is particularly miserable. Duquette wasn't "forced" to sign Ubaldo Jimenez. In fact, Duquette is the one who convinced Angelos to give Ubaldo the biggest contract any FA pitcher had ever gotten from the Orioles. That's on him, not ownership.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, TradeAngelos said:

"Surplus of minor league pitching depth" LOLOL. 

Because the O's couldn't have used a Davies this year...

[ArtVanDelay]

5 minutes ago, TradeAngelos said:

"Surplus of minor league pitching depth" LOLOL. 

Ed Rod, Hader, Davies, Brault....

We had some pretty good MiLB pitchers at one point.  Dan kept Wilson and Wright though!  So we've got that going for us.

[thezeroes]

1 minute ago, ArtVanDelay said:

Ed Rod, Hader, Davies, Brault....

We had some pretty good MiLB pitchers at one point.  Dan kept Wilson and Wright though!  So we've got that going for us.

Name the fifteen or so that pitched this year in the minors that at no point should be considered in a trade and will become stalwarts in the Orioles rotation at some point in the next four years.

[TradeAngelos]

2 minutes ago, PaulFolk said:

First of all, you could easily make your point without the hostility and insults. There's no need for any of that.

To your point, I think we all know that Duquette operates under some restrictions from ownership that other GMs don't face. It's why the Orioles will never be in the market for a high-priced ace.

But even with that in mind, his track record with pitchers is particularly miserable. Duquette wasn't "forced" to sign Ubaldo Jimenez. In fact, Duquette is the one who convinced Angelos to give Ubaldo the biggest contract any FA pitcher had ever gotten from the Orioles. That's on him, not ownership.

"Biggest FA contract for a pitcher EVER from Orioles" LMAO if you could see me right now I am on the floor typing and laughing hysterically at the same time. Uncontrollably. 

That's like if someone takes you to the Dollar Store and says pick out whatever birthday present you want. Which is what Angelos does every single offseason as Dan walks down the clearance aisle.  In the Dollar Store.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, TradeAngelos said:

"Biggest FA contract for a pitcher EVER from Orioles" LMAO if you could see me right now I am on the floor typing and laughing hysterically at the same time. Uncontrollably. 

That's like if someone takes you to the Dollar Store and says pick out whatever birthday present you want. Which is what Angelos does every single offseason as Dan walks down the clearance aisle.  In the Dollar Store.

Right, that explains the sharp increase in payroll the last few years.

 

[TradeAngelos]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

Right, that explains the sharp increase in payroll the last few years.

 

You really want to go over payroll expenditures on starting pitching the last 6 years relative to other contenders?

I didn't think so. 

[PaulFolk]

5 minutes ago, thezeroes said:

Two things in this thread are misleading.

 

Josh Hader was thought of so much by Houston that he was flipped to Milwaukee with three other players for cash and two players.

Bud Norris while being the starter had a team record of 19 Wins and 9 Losses.  So I guess those 19 Wins mean very little because we won the division by 12 Games.  Is that not a 7 team wins win above the twelve team wins in the division clinch or not??

Yes, two things are misleading: the two statements you made.

If you're going to talk about a trade, you should name the players who were traded. That's like saying "The Red Sox thought so little of Yoan Moncada that they traded him with three other players for just one player."

In Hader's case, he was traded for Carlos Gomez, a 29-year-old CF who was coming off two excellent seasons with the Brewers. True, Gomez turned into a dud for the Astros, but at the time he had a lot of value.

As for your second statement, I have no idea what it means. But if you're implying that the Orioles would've won 19 fewer games without Bud, that's clearly absurd.

[ArtVanDelay]

1 minute ago, thezeroes said:

Name the fifteen or so that pitched this year in the minors that at no point should be considered in a trade and will become stalwarts in the Orioles rotation at some point in the next four years.

I don't think we have any because DD traded them.  Are we not supposed to criticize the GM for making bad trades?  Seems like a pretty good reason to criticize him.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, TradeAngelos said:

You really want to go over payroll expenditures on starting pitching the last 6 years relative to other contenders?

I didn't think so. 

Go ahead and define "contenders" for me.

 

[thezeroes]

1 minute ago, PaulFolk said:

As for your second statement, I have no idea what it means. But if you're implying that the Orioles would've won 19 fewer games without Bud, that's clearly absurd.

The thread had the thought that Bud Norris had only given the team a chance at the twelve wins on his ledger when in fact the TEAM had 19.

[thezeroes]

1 minute ago, ArtVanDelay said:

I don't think we have any because DD traded them.  Are we not supposed to criticize the GM for making bad trades?  Seems like a pretty good reason to criticize him.

Criticize away just don't mislead with cherry picked trades.

[thezeroes]

4 minutes ago, PaulFolk said:

In Hader's case, he was traded for Carlos Gomez, a 29-year-old CF who was coming off two excellent seasons with the Brewers. True, Gomez turned into a dud for the Astros, but at the time he had a lot of value.

So we have another GM that made a BAD trade with Hader involved.  Not only did the Orioles not see what they had in him, but neither did the Astros.

[wildcard]

Thanks to AuburnAL an error was detected in my math.  Here is the corrected projected 2018 payroll.

1B  Davis 23m
2B  Schoop - 8m  = 31m - option
SS Beckham - 3m = 34m - option
3B  Manny - 20m  = 54mm  Extended 10/300m with an 5m year opt out.  O's make an exception for Manny.
C Joseph - 3M = 57mm - option
DH Trumbo - 13.5m = 70,5m
LF  Mancini - .545m = 71.045m - option
RF  Hays - .545m = m   71.59- option
 CF Jones - 17m = 88.59m
 BC Wynns - .545m  = 89.135m  - option
OF Gentry .85m = 89.135m 
UIF  ? .545m = 89.68m
OF Santander- .545m  = 90.225- option after 44 days
SP1 Bundy -  1.8m  =  92.025m
SP2 Gausman - 6m = 98.025m  
SP3 Castro  .545m =  98.57m 
SP4?
SP5 Tillman  - 1m with 5m in incentives/150k per start = 99..57m  
RP1 Britton  - 13m  = 112.57m 
RP2 Givens -  .56m  = 113.13m -option
RP3 O’Day -  9m = 122.13m
RP4 Yacabonis  - .545m = 122.675m -option
RP5 Hart -   .55m = 123.225m - option
RP6 Ynoa - .545m  = 123.77m
RP7  Bleier - .545m = 124.315m - option

Hardy buyout 2m
Miley buyout .5m

Total 126.815m with incentives to 131.815m
 

So Dan may have  almost 40m to work with instead of 50m.  Sorry for the mistaken and thanks again to AubrunAL for actually reading the post and pointing out the error.

[ArtVanDelay]

2 minutes ago, thezeroes said:

Criticize away just don't mislead with cherry picked trades.

.....they aren't cherry picked.  We were talking about minor league pitchers.