Girardi: "Buck, hold my beer"

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Uli2001 said:

 

That's because the Orioles don't seem interested in winning. All of those three managers that were recently fired had better results than Showalter, who hangs on to his job because of one ALCS appearance (that ended in a 0-4 sweep) and because he had winning seasons after 13 years of losing. Those are too small accomplishments for a franchise like the Orioles. 

Other than Joe, who has already turned the Orioles down before who is out there that is an improvement on Buck?

 

[Uli2001]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

Other than Joe, who has already turned the Orioles down before who is out there that is an improvement on Buck?

 

Don't ask me. I just know that the Orioles keeping Showalter around at this point looks exactly like the Bengals keeping Marvin Lewis around. However, I would like to think that the Orioles represent more to MLB than the Bengals do to the NFL.

[Tx Oriole]

29 minutes ago, Uli2001 said:

With Baker, Farrell, and Girardi having received their walking papers, someone in Baltimore has noticed that the temperature under his seat has increased a lot.

As it should be.

[El Gordo]

Buck is here as long as he wants to be. PA trusts him and he trusts few people.

[Uli2001]

Just now, El Gordo said:

Buck is here as long as he wants to be. PA trusts him and he trusts few people.

And so the mediocrity is likely to continue.

[Aglets]

22 minutes ago, Uli2001 said:

Don't ask me. I just know that the Orioles keeping Showalter around at this point looks exactly like the Bengals keeping Marvin Lewis around. However, I would like to think that the Orioles represent more to MLB than the Bengals do to the NFL.

Even more absurd than your previous claim of Buck being on the hot seat.

Buck's playoff record is 9-14  (6-8 with the O's), which admittedly is not super impressive.   But Marvin Lewis is an abysmal 0-7.   There's a huge problem with SSS bias here too of course, so you have to look at the whole picture.   The O's won more games than anyone else in our division from like 2012 on I'm pretty sure.   at least from 2012-2016.   That is not mediocrity.

 

I will agree with you that it's beyond time for the Bengals to part ways with Lewis.

[spiritof66]

1 minute ago, birdwatcher55 said:

Honestly I'm going to puke if we do the Lame Duck Waltz through 2018. I want John Angelos to step up and settle things ASAP. Either extend these guys or fire them, preferably fire them both. There are two many good candidates out there now at both levels. Do something!!

I'd be fine with either extensions or dismissals -- though  more than a little worried about who the replacements would be --  but  neither is going to happen before the end of next season.  

Why do you say that John Angelos rather than his father is making these decisions? I'm not saying he isn't, but why do conclude that he is?

[Aglets]

I was right.

Wins from 2012-2016

Orioles:  444

Yankees:  435

Blue Jays:  412

Red Sox:  408

Rays:  407

Which team seems the least mediocre to you?    Yea we had a pretty rough 2017....I will not dispute it.   I am utterly convinced though that without Buck at the helm we would've finished worse off.  Even with the worst starting rotation in MLB we ended up a 75 win team (still in playoff contention in early September!) and that is crazy to me.  Our Pythagorean record would suggest we were a 71 win team.   Buck consistently has been able to maximize the talent that he has under him.  The main issue with 2017 was lack of talent.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Aglets said:

I was right.

Wins from 2012-2016

Orioles:  444

Yankees:  435

Blue Jays:  412

Red Sox:  408

Rays:  407

Which team seems the least mediocre to you?    Yea we had a pretty rough 2017....I will not dispute it.   I am utterly convinced though that without Buck at the helm we would've finished worse off.  Even with the worst starting rotation in MLB we ended up a 75 win team (still in playoff contention in early September!) and that is crazy to me.  Our Pythagorean record would suggest we were a 71 win team.   Buck consistently has been able to maximize the talent that he has under him.  The main issue with 2017 was lack of talent.

But how much of that lack of talent is because of Buck?

Hardy?

O'Day?

Davis?

Trumbo?

Flaherty?

 

[Aglets]

0% of the talent I referred to is from Buck.   I specifically called out the 'worst rotation in MLB' and you went and came up with a list of hitters and one reliever.  We were a slightly below average offense last year....sure there is room for improvement but that is not what really sunk us.

But sure I'll go ahead and respond to your non-sequitur anyway.

Hardy and Flaherty were not big factors last year.   Davis was a problem for sure, but it's hard for me to blame Buck for that contract, unless you think he played a bigger hand in negotiating the deal than Duquette.

Trumbo was a negative, yes....and you could maybe say Buck played him too much.  O'Day actually performed pretty close to his contract value.

The thing about being a manager though is you have to use the guys on the 25 man roster.

And with guys like Hardy and Trumbo, you are certainly going to play them for several weeks to see if they eventually get closer to their track record.  Did Buck stay with them for too long?  Probably.  But again if you're looking for what really sunk us last year it wasn't the offense.......until maybe September I guess.

[Tx Oriole]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

Other than Joe, who has already turned the Orioles down before who is out there that is an improvement on Buck?

 

I don't know. Maybe if DD and Angelos would have given Buck better players. Maybe if Angelos had signed off on a TOR instead of CD. You could have the best manager in baseball and the owner and GM don't provide top players then he won't be successful. 

[Tx Oriole]

1 hour ago, Uli2001 said:

And so the mediocrity is likely to continue.

Probably so.

[Can_of_corn]

14 minutes ago, Aglets said:

0% of the talent I referred to is from Buck.   I specifically called out the 'worst rotation in MLB' and you went and came up with a list of hitters and one reliever.  We were a slightly below average offense last year....sure there is room for improvement but that is not what really sunk us.

But sure I'll go ahead and respond to your non-sequitur anyway.

Hardy and Flaherty were not big factors last year.   Davis was a problem for sure, but it's hard for me to blame Buck for that contract, unless you think he played a bigger hand in negotiating the deal than Duquette.

Trumbo was a negative, yes....and you could maybe say Buck played him too much.  O'Day actually performed pretty close to his contract value.

The thing about being a manager though is you have to use the guys on the 25 man roster.

And with guys like Hardy and Trumbo, you are certainly going to play them for several weeks to see if they eventually get closer to their track record.  Did Buck stay with them for too long?  Probably.  But again if you're looking for what really sunk us last year it wasn't the offense.......until maybe September I guess.

That wasn't the point I was making it up thanks for bringing it up as well.  I think all the players I names were playing for the O's last season in no small part because Buck lobbied for them.  That is two first round lost out on and many millions in long term guaranteed contracts.

[Tx Oriole]

50 minutes ago, spiritof66 said:

I'd be fine with either extensions or dismissals -- though  more than a little worried about who the replacements would be --  but  neither is going to happen before the end of next season.  

Why do you say that John Angelos rather than his father is making these decisions? I'm not saying he isn't, but why do conclude that he is?

Well I think he should be. Isn't Peter 85 or so? 

[Aglets]

19 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

That wasn't the point I was making it up thanks for bringing it up as well.  I think all the players I names were playing for the O's last season in no small part because Buck lobbied for them.  That is two first round lost out on and many millions in long term guaranteed contracts.

Sure, I get that belief.  I just prefer to have more evidence to go along with my own.

Like, are you putting more blame on someone who "may have lobbied" for a certain contract to be signed than on the person who actually pulled the trigger and made that decision?   I don't get that.

If you're looking at who to blame for sacrificing draft picks to overpay for pending free agents (absolutely fair for Trumbo and Davis at least) then I'm not sure why this is on a Buck thread.
 

Buck always talks up his own guys in public to no end, and that's part of the reason why his players love him so much I'm sure.  I bet when he's having private discussions with ownership and Dan he is a little more willing to admit that these guys come with flaws.