If Manny stays he should play 3B.

[Frobby]

2 hours ago, Beef Supreme said:

I was talking about all balls. I think it is more than 10% on batted balls alone, but I am interested to see if you can find the info. I had read within the past year that SS gets twice as many touches as 3B, including grounders, cut-offs, etc. To me, shortstop is more than just fielding grounders. Part of Hardy's appeal was the way he commanded the infield.

Twice as many sounds high to me.   In addition to batted balls, you have maybe .5 relay throws on DP attempts, .3 throws received on stolen base attempts, and a couple of balls thrown in from the OF (many of which are very routine).

Well, maybe not,    Shortstops get about 70% more chances than 3B.

[weams]

14 hours ago, Frobby said:

Twice as many sounds high to me.   In addition to batted balls, you have maybe .5 relay throws on DP attempts, .3 throws received on stolen base attempts, and a couple of balls thrown in from the OF (many of which are very routine).

Well, maybe not,    Shortstops get about 70% more chances than 3B.

Of course, with the shifting now, who is really the shortstop 30% of the time?

[Ruzious]

3 hours ago, weams said:

Of course, with the shifting now, who is really the shortstop 30% of the time?

Another reason to keep Manny at 3B - shifting has made 3B a more strategically important position.    

[interloper]

Yeah I don't think Manny saves nearly as many runs or steals nearly as many outs playing shortstop. 

[Beef Supreme]

20 hours ago, phillyOs119 said:

I’m sure SS get more action from non-batted balls as well, but I don’t know where to find data on that.

For 2017 SS in MLB had 11293 Balls in their zone (according to fangraphs) and 3B had 10021 in their zone. It’s 12.69% more, some years it’s a little more and some it’s under 10%. I’d say the average is in the 10-12% range.

This may be a function of measuring the zone. This fangraphs article makes it look more like the 70% more fielded balls that Frobby referenced: https://www.fangraphs.com/tht/infield-defense-mdash-back-to-basics/

[wildcard]

Buck said the O's should know who plays SS and 3B by FanFest.    Its time.

I still think that the best alignment for the O's is Manny at 3B and Beckham at SS.   The O's should go with the alignment that is the best of them.   We will see.

[mdbdotcom]

If Manny stays, I hope we get to see him play shortstop for a year. That might be a real treat. 

[wildcard]

1 hour ago, mdbdotcom said:

If Manny stays, I hope we get to see him play shortstop for a year. That might be a real treat. 

In that case he might have to cover SS  and 3B because the O's have no other 3B.

[Beef Supreme]

2 hours ago, wildcard said:

In that case he might have to cover SS  and 3B because the O's have no other 3B.

Why do you think Beckham could not handle playing third base? Many a shortstop has been moved to 3B: Cal, Matt Williams, Chipper Jones, Manny Machado, Miguel Tejada, Hanley Ramirez, Gary Sheffield, Maury Wills, Nomar, Alex Rodriguez all moved from shortstop to third base successfully. The Angels are moving Zach Cozart to 3B this year. It's common for players to make the move.

[gtman55]

Manny is outstanding at 3rd base. Why move him to short knowing we don't have someone nearly as good to play third? Doesn't make much sense at all.

Or do we know we're not re-signing him and hope he shines at short to raise his value at the trade deadline?

[Aglets]

4 minutes ago, gtman55 said:

Manny is outstanding at 3rd base. Why move him to short knowing we don't have someone nearly as good to play third? Doesn't make much sense at all.

Or do we know we're not re-signing him and hope he shines at short to raise his value at the trade deadline?

JJ hardy isn't on the team anymore, that's an important detail.

Tim Beckham hasn't exactly been lighting the world on fire defensively.......in 288 games played (almost 2 full seasons) he has been worth a total of 0.8 dWAR.   Not terrible, but certainly not that impressive.

SS is also considered to be the most difficult position on the field to play so it seems entirely logical to me to put your best defensive player (Manny) there, and then you can make an argument that the alignment of Manny at short and Beckham at 3rd is better than the reverse.  

Personally I would like to try Schoop at 3rd cuz he has the arm for it and then put Beckham at 2B.  

Also, the trade value argument you raise is certainly part of the calculation.....Duquette is well aware Manny isn't going to be here a year from now.   The fact that Duquette may not be either is a bit concerning though.

[wildcard]

39 minutes ago, Beef Supreme said:

Why do you think Beckham could not handle playing third base? Many a shortstop has been moved to 3B: Cal, Matt Williams, Chipper Jones, Manny Machado, Miguel Tejada, Hanley Ramirez, Gary Sheffield, Maury Wills, Nomar, Alex Rodriguez all moved from shortstop to third base successfully. The Angels are moving Zach Cozart to 3B this year. It's common for players to make the move.

Beckham is currently a 30 error SS.   Dickerson will work with him to see if you can get better.  Complicating that with having him learn 3B does not sound like a good idea.

[mdbdotcom]

4 hours ago, wildcard said:

In that case he might have to cover SS  and 3B because the O's have no other 3B.

I doubt that would affect our record.

Manny is a natural SS. He played SS in the minors and was brought up to play 3B because we had a hole there. The last two years he's tried to bulk up and hit like a 3B, but he is not an elite hitter at 3B.

Playing SS, Manny can stay leaner and play his game. He could also be an elite SS in the field and at the plate. He's done his bit to help the O's, and this year's team isn't going anywhere. Let Manny be Manny. Don't keep him out of his natural position in his walk year when the team has little chance to contend.

[Beef Supreme]

1 hour ago, wildcard said:

Beckham is currently a 30 error SS.   Dickerson will work with him to see if you can get better.  Complicating that with having him learn 3B does not sound like a good idea.

That's part of the reason why I think that if the Orioles are committed to chasing a World Series championship this year, they'd be best served by playing Machado at shortstop and "hiding" Beckham at 3B (however much we can call that hiding. I think Beckham would be best suited for left field). A shortstop booting that many balls can be devastating to a solid pitching staff. Imagine what it could do to Bundy, Gausman, Some Person, Some Other Person and Some Third Person. That's a recipe for a meltdown of Chernobyl-esque proportions.

Stumbled across this article recently: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2016/05/17/orioles-third-baseman-manny-machado-might-be-baseballs-best-shortstop/?utm_term=.aed386a3fd0b

Quote

Manny Machado stands now where he has stood most of his life: at shortstop. He is there by happenstance, because a teammate is injured so he slid on over, and did so seamlessly. Watch him play, and try to tell the Baltimore Orioles they need to move him back to third base.

“He could be the best shortstop in the league,” one longtime scout said. “Name a player you’d rather have be your shortstop.”

Maybe Carlos Correa of Houston. Maybe.

“Sure,” the scout said. “But it’s not a long list.”

His every move on the field would tell you... that he’s a shortstop who has found his way back home.

I get it -- moving Beckham off of short may be bad for the team if he is unhappy. Manny becomes, if this is possible, even more unattainable for the Orioles to re-sign. And the 2019 Orioles infield would become Schoop at third base, Mountcastle at second base and, I-don't-know-who at SS. Ruben Tejada? Sign Elvis Andrus when he opts-out? Won't matter much since there will be no delusion about chasing a championship in 2019.

Of course, If they trade Manny before the season starts, they can play Beckham at shortstop all year and it won't matter much in the standings. Maybe they could re-sign Flaherty to play third in that case.

[Frobby]

2 hours ago, wildcard said:

Beckham is currently a 30 error SS.   Dickerson will work with him to see if you can get better.  Complicating that with having him learn 3B does not sound like a good idea.

No he’s not.    He’s made 24 errors in 163 games.    My guess is he’d do a bit better in his next 162.