Elite Athletes and then other guys.

[weams]

Some folks are beyond coaching. 

[OFFNY]

1 hour ago, weams said:

o

 

Some folks are beyond coaching. 

 

o

 

I think I remember reading a story a long time ago about Murray practicing switch-hitting in his family's garage, when he was a little kid ........ and that that experience subsequently made his conversion to switch-hitting many years later easier than it would have been for most players.

 

Another interesting story on the subject of batting from one side of the plate or the other is that of Cleon Jones. Jones was a relatively rare MLB player that batted right-handed, but fielded left-handed. The reason being was that when he was a kid playing wiffle ball with his friends in their neighborhood, the entire right side of the field was deemed to be foul territory because they did not have enough defenders to cover the entire field ........ so even though he was a natural lefty, Jones adapted to the neighborhood rules for their wiffle ball games by batting right-handed, presuming that he would just have hit a ton of foul balls had he batted from his natural left-handed stance.

 

o

[weams]

There are just special, special athletes in this world. No amount of hard work, coaching, or circumstance changes that. Just special special people. 

[OFFNY]

35 minutes ago, weams said:

 

There are just special, special athletes in this world. No amount of hard work, coaching, or circumstance changes that. Just special special people. 

 

o

 

I don't believe that to necessarily be true.

Darryl Strawberry (for example) was a "special, special" person who DID NOT live up to his potential because he did not take care of himself. Had he done so (worked more diligently, stayed away from drugs and alcohol, listened to his experienced mentors in regard to both life overall and baseball, etc), he very well may have lived up to the potential/standards that he was capable of.

Even Mickey Mantle, by his own admission, could have been even greater than he was had he taken care of himself more, and been more of a student of the game (ala Ted Williams.)

 

Also, I believe that Murray very likely would have been a great player had he not chosen to be a switch-hitter, but perhaps not quite as great as he was ........ hence, for as talented and gifted as he was, he probably maximized those talents and gifts by choosing to ........ work diligently, take care of himself, and (presumably) listen to his coaches when he was at the AA-level of the Minor Leagues.

 

So yes, there are many people that may never be able to become Major League baseball players no matter how hard they work and/or how cooperative and coachable they are. But there are countless of examples of players who ........

 

A) ) did indeed go further in their chosen field than what was expected of them in regard to their talent by practicing diligently, taking care of themselves, and listening to their mentors/coaches.

 

AND

 

B) ) had the talent to be Hall-of-Famers, but either blew their careers entirely or diminished them and wound up falling short of what they were capable of by not taking care of themselves, and choosing not to exert/expend their efforts in their chosen field.

 

o

[atomic]

I read article a long time ago that Murray would try to hit Frisbees from both sides growing up.   

[weams]

49 minutes ago, OFFNY said:

o

 

I don't believe that to necessarily be true.

Darryl Strawberry (for example) was a "special, special" person who DID NOT live up to his potential because he did not take care of himself. Had he done so (worked more diligently, stayed away from drugs and alcohol, listened to his experienced mentors in regard to both life overall and baseball, etc), he very well may have lived up to the potential/standards that he was capable of.

Even Mickey Mantle, by his own admission, could have been even greater than he was had he taken care of himself more, and been more of a student of the game (ala Ted Williams.)

 

Also, I believe that Murray very likely would have been a great player had he not chosen to be a switch-hitter, but perhaps not quite as great as he was ........ hence, for as talented and gifted as he was, he probably maximized those talents and gifts by choosing to ........ work diligently, take care of himself, and (presumably) listen to his coaches when he was at the AA-level of the Minor Leagues.

 

So yes, there are many people that may never be able to become Major League baseball players no matter how hard they work and/or how cooperative and coachable they are. But there are countless of examples of players who ........

 

A) ) did indeed go further in their chosen field than what was expected of them in regard to their talent by practicing diligently, taking care of themselves, and listening to their mentors/coaches.

 

AND

 

B) ) had the talent to be Hall-of-Famers, but either blew their careers entirely or diminished them and wound up falling short of what they were capable of by not taking care of themselves, and choosing not to exert/expend their efforts in their chosen field.

 

o

We differ.  And I'd have taken Straw and kept him from New York or Florida. 

[OFFNY]

1 hour ago, OFFNY said:

o

 

I don't believe that to necessarily be true.

Darryl Strawberry (for example) was a "special, special" person who DID NOT live up to his potential because he did not take care of himself. Had he done so (worked more diligently, stayed away from drugs and alcohol, listened to his experienced mentors in regard to both life overall and baseball, etc), he very well may have lived up to the potential/standards that he was capable of.

Even Mickey Mantle, by his own admission, could have been even greater than he was had he taken care of himself more, and been more of a student of the game (ala Ted Williams.)

 

Also, I believe that Murray very likely would have been a great player had he not chosen to be a switch-hitter, but perhaps not quite as great as he was ........ hence, for as talented and gifted as he was, he probably maximized those talents and gifts by choosing to ........ work diligently, take care of himself, and (presumably) listen to his coaches when he was at the AA-level of the Minor Leagues.

 

So yes, there are many people that may never be able to become Major League baseball players no matter how hard they work and/or how cooperative and coachable they are. But there are countless of examples of players who ........

 

A) ) did indeed go further in their chosen field than what was expected of them in regard to their talent by practicing diligently, taking care of themselves, and listening to their mentors/coaches.

 

AND

 

B) ) had the talent to be Hall-of-Famers, but either blew their careers entirely or diminished them and wound up falling short of what they were capable of by not taking care of themselves, and choosing not to exert/expend their efforts in their chosen field.

 

o

 

 

45 minutes ago, weams said:

 

We differ. And I'd have taken Strawberry and kept him from New York or Florida. 

 

o

 

I don't see how the notion of geographically changing Strawberry's location(s) refutes any of my points. He was born (and grew up) in Los Angeles, and was drafted by the New York Mets. Asserting that he may not have indulged in all of the self-destructive behaviors that he did if he had simply been kept away from New York City and/or Florida seems preposterous (in addition to impossible, since he was drafted by and played for the New York Mets.)

 

o

[weams]

55 minutes ago, OFFNY said:

 

 

o

 

I don't see how the notion of geographically changing Strawberry's location(s) refutes any of my points. He was born (and grew up) in Los Angeles, and was drafted by the New York Mets. Asserting that he may not have indulged in all of the self-destructive behaviors that he did if he had simply been kept away from New York City and/or Florida seems preposterous (in addition to impossible, since he was drafted by and played for the New York Mets.)

 

o

I can see your points. 

[InsideCoroner]

1 hour ago, atomic said:

I read article a long time ago that Murray would try to hit Frisbees from both sides growing up.   

I specifically taught myself to switch hit because of Eddie. But I remember the story with him and his brothers was learning to hit the curve by throwing Crisco lids to one another, which broke like a Whiffle ball. 

[atomic]

25 minutes ago, InsideCoroner said:

I specifically taught myself to switch hit because of Eddie. But I remember the story with him and his brothers was learning to hit the curve by throwing Crisco lids to one another, which broke like a Whiffle ball. 

You are right.   But I wasn't so far off remembering an article I read 36 years ago. 

"The Crisco lids you'd throw like a Frisbee, only over the top. Right side up and it was a curveball, upside down it was a screwball. Once you've hit a Crisco lid, baseballs seem easy."

https://www.si.com/vault/1982/06/21/624334/eddie-is-a-handy-dandy

[gmelson26]

Someone needs to get Davis some Crisco lids...

[weams]

8 hours ago, gmelson26 said:

Someone needs to get Davis some Crisco lids...

Davis is at the End of a career. 

Eddie was six. 

[gmelson26]

47 minutes ago, weams said:

Davis is at the End of a career. 

Eddie was six. 

Oh I agree.  Kind of too late to make those neural connections.. I just thought it was amusing.

[atomic]

I miss guys like Eddie.  Guys who could hit for power and average have high OBP while striking out less than 100 times a year.  You could say the same thing about Singleton and Ripken.  No wonder we won the World Series with those 3 guys. 

[25 Nuggets]

After observing baseball for three decades, I definitely believe one can coach a player to do worse.  And I do believe the Orioles are guilty of this infraction multiple times.

Jake Arrieta is of course the best example of this.  His throwing motion was supposed to mean a short, truncated career.  Well, he's in his age 32 season and doing just fine after returning to his natural throwing motion in the NL.  12 GS, 134 ERA+, 1.177 WHIP.