Could the leader we desperately need already be here?

[Greg Pappas]

2 hours ago, Tx Oriole said:

The thing I am concerned about is the possible relocation of the team if it's not the Angelos Family. 

I'm no expert, but I firmly believe the team would stay here in Baltimore.

[ShaneDawg85]

Best case scenario is a situation akin to what's happened with the Chicago Blackhawks.  Father was viewed as financially prudent, borderline miserly, disengaged from his own fan base, ownership passes on to the son, who realizes the ways and errors of the father and goes about things in a different way.  Granted, landing some baseball equivalents of Patrick Kane, Jonathan Towes, and Corey Crawford would help, but as far as a potential ownership transition from father to sons, that's a best case scenario.  

[jtschrei]

A. There is plenty of folks who would buy the team, who would keep it in Baltimore. With all of the negative things to be said about the Angelos family, I firmly believe the family would not sell the team to anyone who would even potentially move it. 

B. The leader we are looking for needs to set the goal for the organization as "Winning the World Series." Then, hire the GM who has the vision for winning the WS given the resources the organization has. Then trust the GM and give the GM the ability to fulfill his vision. 

The Angelos family has not been able to use this formula. First, I'm not sure the organization has the goal of winning the WS. I think this organization wants to have a team the community can be proud of and make a modest profit ...and it would be nice to win a WS. Second, the Angelos family has not been able to set a clear chain of command and stay out of the GM's way. There is not one instance of this, but numerous instances over the decades. It's horrible. 

So. I'm not sure John is the answer. I'm skeptical, big time. And that's the optimistic part of me. 

[Greg Pappas]

On 6/15/2018 at 11:17 AM, jtschrei said:

A. There is plenty of folks who would buy the team, who would keep it in Baltimore. With all of the negative things to be said about the Angelos family, I firmly believe the family would not sell the team to anyone who would even potentially move it. 

B. The leader we are looking for needs to set the goal for the organization as "Winning the World Series." Then, hire the GM who has the vision for winning the WS given the resources the organization has. Then trust the GM and give the GM the ability to fulfill his vision. 

The Angelos family has not been able to use this formula. First, I'm not sure the organization has the goal of winning the WS. I think this organization wants to have a team the community can be proud of and make a modest profit ...and it would be nice to win a WS. Second, the Angelos family has not been able to set a clear chain of command and stay out of the GM's way. There is not one instance of this, but numerous instances over the decades. It's horrible. 

So. I'm not sure John is the answer. I'm skeptical, big time. And that's the optimistic part of me. 

It's fair to be highly skeptical of John's ability to be the answer.  I just don't know enough to be highly skeptical... I'm more skeptical-lite. =P

I just wish I understood the detailed inner workings of who handles what for ownership, including most specifically what John does.  I've read that John is the Executive Vice President and Chief Operating Officer of the team, and he handles to some degree team promotions. However, I'm not really sure what those titles mean. Perhaps a poster here knows far more than I do and can fill us in.

[Tx Oriole]

49 minutes ago, Greg Pappas said:

I'm no expert, but I firmly believe the team would stay here in Baltimore.

I still remember that jerk Bob Irsay. Moved the Colts in the middle of the night. That move hurt my heart since I have been a fan since I was 10. I don't want that to happen to the O's. 

[spiritof66]

2 hours ago, billw76 said:

That would concern me a little also, but how many teams in baseball or any of the major sports have moved because of an ownership change?

I may be wrong, and don't have time right now to look, but I would guess that most teams move because they can't get new stadiums built, or the fans just don't support the team.

I'm not sure if Angelos was to sell the team he could make a stipulation that the buyer has to agree to keep the team in Baltimore. Is that even legally possible? I'm not sure what the O's lease with the MD stadium authority for Camden Yards is either, and I'd guess they would oppose a move while under lease also.

The Orioles aren't going anywhere, at least for a while. MLB would be very unlikely to admit that it has failed anywhere for reasons other than an inadequate facility, and especially in a city with a rich baseball history. (It's true that the big-league owners have screwed Baltimore at least four times in the distant past: eliminating the National League Orioles in the 1899 contraction, folding the new AL franchise in favor of New York in 1903, ignoring the Terrapins in the 1915-16 settlement with the other Federal League teams, and voting down Bill Veeck's proposed move of the Browns to Baltimore in 1953. I guess you could throw in 2014 MASN arbitration award .)

Right now, there is no obvious open city for the Orioles to move to. Potential sites like Portland, Charlotte and Montreal are being held open as possibilities for expansion or a relocation of the A's or Rays if they can't solve their stadium problems. That may change, but the change would be at least ten years away, probably more.

Having a new owner agree to keep the team in Baltimore will help, but it wouldn't be foolproof. Generally, anyone who enters into a contract is free to break that contract and pay the damages caused by breaking it. I'm pretty sure there are ways to make it difficult for a new owner to move. The Angeloses could retain a small piece of the team (or donate it to a Baltimore charity) and give themselves or a Baltimore-based interest one board seat, with that board member retaining the right to veto a franchise move. Or the Orioles could enter into a long-term lease to the stadium. I'm sure there are lots of other ways to make a move difficult or very expensive.

Here's the rub. If the Angeloses sell the team after Peter's death with limitations on moving it, those limitations will reduce the price they get for their controlling interest. It would be interesting to see whether they're willing to do that.  

 

[Tony-OH]

I think we'll know all we need to know when we find out who will be running the show.

If it's Brady Anderson then we can expect that John and or brother Louis will run things the same way as their father for the most part.

I've met John a few times and he's been affable, but we'll know a lot more once we know who's really calling the shots (Is Peter back?), but more importantly when they decide who will helm the rebuild, it will tell us volumes.

[Aglets]

9 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I think we'll know all we need to know when we find out who will be running the show.

If it's Brady Anderson then we can expect that John and or brother Louis will run things the same way as their father for the most part.

I've met John a few times and he's been affable, but we'll know a lot more once we know who's really calling the shots (Is Peter back?), but more importantly when they decide who will helm the rebuild, it will tell us volumes.

Yea it's the question of "When" that has been perhaps frustrating the most of all to me.

Tony, I have a few 'gut' questions for you based on your knowledge of the way the warehouse has worked all this time.

I get the vibe that the front office on this day right now really does NOT KNOW who they want running the baseball operations of the team or the clubhouse itself next year.   Do you think that's correct?

When do you think they will actually make that decision?   Seems like it won't be until the off-season?

[Il BuonO]

8 hours ago, beervendor said:

I was under the impression that Peter hasn't been involved in day-to-day operations for years. Though it seems clear that PA retains veto authority, John has been the de facto owner for some time. Just my view from the cheap seats, I could be wrong.

So, then it was JA who approved the Davis deal?

Eh, no.

[Tony-OH]

10 hours ago, Aglets said:

Yea it's the question of "When" that has been perhaps frustrating the most of all to me.

Tony, I have a few 'gut' questions for you based on your knowledge of the way the warehouse has worked all this time.

I get the vibe that the front office on this day right now really does NOT KNOW who they want running the baseball operations of the team or the clubhouse itself next year.   Do you think that's correct?

When do you think they will actually make that decision?   Seems like it won't be until the off-season?

I wish I had an answer for you. Saying that, I find it interesting that the Orioles are reportedly interviewing front office candidates. Now the more interesting thing would be knowing for what position? Is this the Duquette position and Brady is still going to be doing some or all of the heavy lifting when it comes to trades and signing FAs? 

This has to get done soon because the new guy, if he's going to be involved, has to have some time start working trades for players by the Trading deadline.

[Frobby]

On 6/15/2018 at 6:32 AM, wildcard said:

I think the question of whether Peter is still calling the shots for his sons is an important one.  Its a little hard for me to believe that Peter will let go of what he has built even to his sons.

What has he “built?”    He took a wrecking ball to a once-proud franchise.    

[gtman55]

In my job, I deal with many people on a daily basis. Many who are huge Orioles fans. The vibe I've gotten from most over the years (and especially this year) is that most people think Angelos is a horrendous owner. And based on that I truly belive that if this team was sold, those same disillusioned fans would come back to the Yards and attendance would start increasing again. Angelos is the Orioles downfall.

[wildcard]

18 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

I think we'll know all we need to know when we find out who will be running the show.

If it's Brady Anderson then we can expect that John and or brother Louis will run things the same way as their father for the most part.

I've met John a few times and he's been affable, but we'll know a lot more once we know who's really calling the shots (Is Peter back?), but more importantly when they decide who will helm the rebuild, it will tell us volumes.

It doesn't  look like it will be one guy the does the rebuild.    Its June 16th.  In the next 6 weeks they have to trade Manny, Britton, Jones, Brach and Valencia.     Duquette may make and receive the calls but Peter through his sons probably have to approve any deal.   Brady will have input.   There is really no time for much change in the decision chain right now.

After the deadline anything can happen.  But I think Peter is still in the loop on any decisions that are made.  John and Lou just carry out his wishes.   Who knows what happens with Buck.  Dan does not seem to be a position to have his contract extended. Brady  does not want the GM job.  

[Frobby]

By the way, it was nice to see Ted Lerner officially passing the torch to his son Mark.    Some people know when it’s time.  

[wildcard]

55 minutes ago, Frobby said:

What has he “built?”    He took a wrecking ball to a once-proud franchise.    

Oh, stop it.  I shouldn't have to state what you already know.  From 2012-2016 they won more games then any team in the AL.  The won the division in 2014 and went to the playoff 3 times.  So something good was built.

 Over Peter's tenure he has not been a good owner as far a wins go.   But he did two things that are notable.  1) He made a shrew move to get control for MASN when the MLB forced at team into Washington.   Without that move the O's don't have the resources to compete in the AL EAST.    2)  He hired the right people to win from 2012-2016.  And we do have to give him credit for allowing MacPhail to collect talent.  Even though MacPhail could not finish the job.

I am not defending Peter overall impact of the franchise but to say he didn't build anything is just not true.