O's WAA

[Greg Pappas]

According to Baseball-Reference.com, the following is a breakdown of the current Orioles positional WAA (Wins Above Average.)  For those unfamiliar with WAA, here is a fairly simple explanation of the difference between WAR and WAA.

Total Team WAA: -14.1 (MLB rank=29th)

All pitching: -0.4 (MLB rank=17th)
Starting pitching: -0.8 (MLB rank=22nd)
Relief pitching: +0.5 (MLB rank=10th)

All Position players:  -13.7 (MLB rank=30th)
Catcher: -1.5 (MLB rank=29th)
1B: -3.8 (MLB rank=30th)
2B: -1.8 (MLB rank=29th)
3B: -1.3 (MLB rank=28th)
SS: +0.8 (MLB rank=14th)
LF: -2.0 (MLB rank=30th)
CF: -1.2 (MLB rank=28th)
RF: -1.2 (MLB rank=23rd)
DH: -0.9 (MLB rank=29th)

 

[Bahama O's Fan]

Manny is only 14th? That's shocking to me

[amdcpus]

1 minute ago, Bahama O's Fan said:

Manny is only 14th? That's shocking to me

He's been very, very bad on defense.

[Bahama O's Fan]

2 minutes ago, amdcpus said:

He's been very, very bad on defense.

True. I guess it depends on each statistic. How much value is put into defense. One of the dumbest moves ever. Putting him to SS this season. No good reason for it.

[Greg Pappas]

One of the simplest takeaways from this is that we have league average pitching and perhaps the worst positional player group in all of baseball.  Aaaaaand we're about to lose Machado.  Ugh.

[tntoriole]

39 minutes ago, Greg Pappas said:

One of the simplest takeaways from this is that we have league average pitching and perhaps the worst positional player group in all of baseball.  Aaaaaand we're about to lose Machado.  Ugh.

Well, the good news is that it might make drastically rebuilding easier. If one thinks of a 3-5 year plan,  no argument can really be made that any of the current position players will be part of that with the sole exceptions, maybe, possibly, of Mancini and Cisco.   It is almost impossible to see how one would just not proceed to sell off any and all current players that either have value now or develop any value in this season or next.   This would also apply to starting pitchers and bullpen too, but you virtually have no risk of short term drop off in performance if you even just substituted Norfolk and Bowie position players for what we have now. 

[InsideCoroner]

1 hour ago, Greg Pappas said:

According to Baseball-Reference.com, the following is a breakdown of the current Orioles positional WAA (Wins Above Average.)  For those unfamiliar with WAA, here is a fairly simple explanation of the difference between WAR and WAA.

Total Team WAA: -14.1 (MLB rank=29th)

All pitching: -0.4 (MLB rank=17th)
Starting pitching: -0.8 (MLB rank=22nd)
Relief pitching: +0.5 (MLB rank=10th)

All Position players:  -13.7 (MLB rank=30th)
Catcher: -1.5 (MLB rank=29th)
1B: -3.8 (MLB rank=30th)
2B: -1.8 (MLB rank=29th)
3B: -1.3 (MLB rank=28th)
SS: +0.8 (MLB rank=14th)
LF: -2.0 (MLB rank=30th)
CF: -1.2 (MLB rank=28th)
RF: -1.2 (MLB rank=23rd)
DH: -0.9 (MLB rank=29th)

 

Interesting, I like the concept of WAA. Out of curiosity, do you have the numbers for 2017 easily at hand? Just curious where we were last year at several positions (C, 2B, SS, 3B, CF). 

[Frobby]

7 minutes ago, InsideCoroner said:

Interesting, I like the concept of WAA. Out of curiosity, do you have the numbers for 2017 easily at hand? Just curious where we were last year at several positions (C, 2B, SS, 3B, CF). 

Scroll down to “wins above average by position:”   https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL/2017.shtml

[gtman55]

And still we're unsure if this front office realizes we need a complete overhaul. How delusional are they?

[JR Oriole]

I was not familiar with WAA but I like it.  I feel like it comes closer to what I am always focused on, which is why are the Oriole players so much worse at their jobs than the other players who are doing the same jobs.  Not sure if WAA exactly captures that, but that's what I care about.  I wish there was a similar statistic available for coaches and managers!

I also wish there was a way to capture a sort of Oriole WAR Effect, or Oriole WAA Effect.  Like Schoop and Davis have been awful.....but how much worse are they simply because they play for a historically terrible team where failure is expected and even worse, accepted?  If Schoop was on the 2018 Mariners, how much better would he be just because they try hard to win and are good and we clearly don't....and aren't.  It would never be a "clean" statistic because of the different players around you and the different schedule (amongst other things), but I am positive that the stench of failure and the zero accountability culture is making these guys much worse than they would be otherwise.  Would be nice to quantify it other than at the global level where we are on pace to finish with 31 fewer wins than what Fangraphs predicted based on the actual talent and historical performance of our current roster. 

[Malike]

1 hour ago, gtman55 said:

And still we're unsure if this front office realizes we need a complete overhaul. How delusional are they?

I don't think anyone is unsure if the front office believes they need an overhaul. It's kind of hard to do the things that have to be done when your hands are tied, though.

[Teddy OBP]

Great post glad I clicked...half assumed it was another post whining about how bad the team was 

[InsideCoroner]

2 hours ago, Frobby said:

Scroll down to “wins above average by position:”   https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL/2017.shtml

Thanks Frobby. So last year in all of MLB we were #10 (RP), #3 (C), #2 (2B) and #13 (3B).

[Aristotelian]

So we're basically Manny and a bunch of below average to terrible guys. Yeah, that confirms the eye test.

[Morgan423]

3 hours ago, tntoriole said:

Well, the good news is that it might make drastically rebuilding easier. If one thinks of a 3-5 year plan,  no argument can really be made that any of the current position players will be part of that with the sole exceptions, maybe, possibly, of Mancini and Cisco.   It is almost impossible to see how one would just not proceed to sell off any and all current players that either have value now or develop any value in this season or next.   This would also apply to starting pitchers and bullpen too, but you virtually have no risk of short term drop off in performance if you even just substituted Norfolk and Bowie position players for what we have now. 

Exactly. We're taking a small handful of guys onward.  Everyone else must go... it's time for rebuilding, not keeping the vast majority of the players and reloading again.