Orioles hiring Eddie Murray as Special Advisor

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, TonySoprano said:

Here was Rosenthal's POV,  and he made sure Baltimore knew it in his columns back then. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/sports/2003/07/27/enigmatic-murrays-sounds-of-silence/51ec6a7c-d616-45a7-92ce-d6acfea557ee/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.cbcb97ce4081

Alright, so?  I mean, a ballplayer and a writer didn't like each other, it's not the first time it happened, it won't be the last.  One has one story, the other has another point of view.  

Is it at all possible that...Rosenthal could have been correct about a cloud being lifted when he was gone?  After all, he had more access to the club than practically anyone else.  Is there a chance that some of the guys on the team told Rosenthal that and he was just reporting what the players viewpoints were?

 

[waroriole]

1 hour ago, JohnD said:

Am I the only one who reed those quotes and sees another voice ala Brady potentially undermining whoever is supposed to be running baseball operations?

Yup. That’s what I came to say. Love Eddie and glad he’s back. But I don’t like this special advisor nonsense 

[eddie83]

25 minutes ago, atomic said:

When did Brooks stop doing tv broadcast for Orioles?

1993, last year Channel 2 had them. In 1994 a bunch of games were split with 13 and 54. They used the same announcers as HTS. Proctor, Lowenstein, Palmer.  

[TonySoprano]

3 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Alright, so?  I mean, a ballplayer and a writer didn't like each other, it's not the first time it happened, it won't be the last.  One has one story, the other has another point of view.  

Is it at all possible that...Rosenthal could have been correct about a cloud being lifted when he was gone?  After all, he had more access to the club than practically anyone else.  Is there a chance that some of the guys on the team told Rosenthal that and he was just reporting what the players viewpoints were?

 

Once again, we'll never agree, and that's fine.  What Rosenthal and Steadman did was to paint Eddie as a negative to an entire town.  This was back in the day with one newspaper, three TV stations, so public perception came from the Sun's fishwrap writers.   Of course, you remember how it was back then....

[eddie83]

1 minute ago, waroriole said:

Yup. That’s what I came to say. Love Eddie and glad he’s back. But I don’t like this special advisor nonsense 

I think you are reading too much info it. He is here to help out wherever they need him.  

[Rene88]

2 hours ago, Greg Pappas said:

 

Omg! It’s like Christmas in Baltimore! #33!!! Woohoo!

[SteveA]

3 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

1993, last year Channel 2 had them. In 1994 a bunch of games were split with 13 and 54. They used the same announcers as HTS. Proctor, Lowenstein, Palmer.  

After years on channel 2, the first game on Channel 13 (WJZ) was a spring training game in St Petersburg, where the Orioles trained for a few years.   Al Lang Field, right on the waterfront, not far from the Salvador Dali Museum.

Some friends and I went to the game on our spring training trip.   We wanted to get on TV, so we made a sign.   The only thing we could think of with the letters W-J-Z was "We're Just Zany for the Orioles".   I think we got on TV with it.

</end pointless story>

[Moose Milligan]

3 minutes ago, TonySoprano said:

Once again, we'll never agree, and that's fine.  What Rosenthal and Steadman did was to paint Eddie as a negative to an entire town.  This was back in the day with one newspaper, three TV stations, so public perception came from the Sun's fishwrap writers.   Of course, you remember how it was back then....

I'm not asking you to agree, you're jumping to conclusions.

I'm asking...is it possible they were right?  

[TonySoprano]

9 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I'm not asking you to agree, you're jumping to conclusions.

I'm asking...is it possible they were right?  

Eddie did not have the best relationship with the press; that's no secret, and it dates back before 1988.  Is it possible that they took it personal and had an agenda?     Today, again, Eddie talked about a level playing field, and that's not new.  From the same article

Quote

"I just wish people would understand that not everybody seeks notoriety," Murray said this January during a news conference following his election to the Hall on his first ballot. Asked about his silence, he said, "I couldn't win that fight. It's not a level playing field."

If you choose to belabor this, tell me what you recall from those days.  Or am I simply jumping to conclusions, that many others have about those days as well?

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, TonySoprano said:

Eddie did not have the best relationship with the press; that's no secret, and it dates back before 1988.  Is it possible that they took it personal and had an agenda?     Today, again, Eddie talked about a level playing field, and that's not new.  From the same article

 

Alright, Eddie is an angel.  I got it.

[SteveA]

2 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I'm not asking you to agree, you're jumping to conclusions.

I'm asking...is it possible they were right?  

Eddie went on to play significant time for the Dodgers, Mets, Indians, and 90s Orioles.   Were there any type of those "issues" with those teams?

If Eddie had an attitude problem, it was that he couldn't stand losing, he couldn't stand baseball being played the wrong way.   That wasn't the Oriole way that was inculcated in him from the age of 19.   Maybe he didn't react well to being on the worst team in baseball for a 2+ year span (August 1986-the end of 1988).

Eddie's teammates, from Cal on down have universally said he was a great teammate, so no, I do not think Rosenthal was right.

Look, Eddie had a grudge against reporters dating back to Dick Young in 1979.   It made him very guarded around them.   And maybe he didn't deal with THEM very fairly.   Maybe he was even somewhat of a bully to the media.   That's not admirable, it's a character flaw.   But it does not mean he was a bad teammate or a cancer in the clubhouse as Rosenthal painted him.   None of his teammates ever thought he was.   As Tony points out, the local media had a much greater ability to shape public opinion back then.   And I think Rosenthal abused that power to turn a lot of people in Baltimore agianst Eddie.   (And some people in Baltimore were pre-disposed to be easily turned against Eddie due to the color of his skin.   That's just a fact, and a lot of them sat in the good seats behind the dugouts where they could be easily heard on the field).

[eddie83]

15 minutes ago, SteveA said:

After years on channel 2, the first game on Channel 13 (WJZ) was a spring training game in St Petersburg, where the Orioles trained for a few years.   Al Lang Field, right on the waterfront, not far from the Salvador Dali Museum.

Some friends and I went to the game on our spring training trip.   We wanted to get on TV, so we made a sign.   The only thing we could think of with the letters W-J-Z was "We're Just Zany for the Orioles".   I think we got on TV with it.

</end pointless story>

Cool story.

Angelos took over that year. Who knows all went into the changes. 

[Obando]

35 minutes ago, SteveA said:

I think that Brady "undermined" things because he had Peter Angelos' ear.   For whatever reason, Peter thought that Brady was the smartest guy out there.   He'd ask Brady, you think we should re-sign Davis?   And Brady would say yes.   Should we trade Britton?   Brady would say the deal is not good enough.   And Peter would listen.

It's absolutely clear that Peter isn't calling the shots now.   As Roy relates above, Brooks asked to be part of the organization and Peter didn't even dignify him with an answer.   Now he is brought in with fanfare.   For years, no significant Latin American international presence, now Duquette goes on the main sports outlet in town, and without even being asked, says that's going to change.

So Brady's influence has probably waned significantly because he had PGA's ear and PGA isn't running things.   Maybe he isn't healthy enough to, either physically or perhaps dealing with early dementia.

So could a Brady-whispering-in-Peter's-ear situation start with someone like Murray and John Angelos?   I suppose anything is possible, but John seems to be his own man.   He gives every appearance of someone who wants to leverage all the resources available, whether it's engaging two former great players to help the team, or having dinner and picking the brain of the team's long time veteran leader, or throwing away old policies that are counterproductive.   Just because one owner who was in his old age leaned on a guy too much for advice above many of the other people he had hired doesn't mean that John would do the same.   He's hired new guy to run the business/promotion end too.   Last year the Orioles really upped their game with a good bunch of promotions.   This year they have added things that a lot of teams have been doing but that we hadn't before -- the 9 college nights for instance (I think they had two last year), the LGBTQ night, the dogs-at-the-park night.   All things other teams had been doing for a few years.   The kids-free thing.

Change is happening.   The Brady/Peter thing was a unique situation where an aging owner who wanted to win one before he was gone trusted the advice of someone he liked more than many of the people he had hired, especially after Duquette's Toronto flirtation, and overruled the desires of the very people he had put in charge, and constrained what they were able to do.   I see no indication that John Angelos is going down that path, in word or in action.

Well said!  I agree with all of your points.  I think if Oriole fans give John & Lou a chance to prove that they are going to run things much differently than Peter (meaning for the better), they will be rewarded in the long run.  

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, SteveA said:

Eddie went on to play significant time for the Dodgers, Mets, Indians, and 90s Orioles.   Were there any type of those "issues" with those teams?

If Eddie had an attitude problem, it was that he couldn't stand losing, he couldn't stand baseball being played the wrong way.   That wasn't the Oriole way that was inculcated in him from the age of 19.   Maybe he didn't react well to being on the worst team in baseball for a 2+ year span (August 1986-the end of 1988).

Eddie's teammates, from Cal on down have universally said he was a great teammate, so no, I do not think Rosenthal was right.

Look, Eddie had a grudge against reporters dating back to Dick Young in 1979.   It made him very guarded around them.   And maybe he didn't deal with THEM very fairly.   Maybe he was even somewhat of a bully to the media.   That's not admirable, it's a character flaw.   But it does not mean he was a bad teammate or a cancer in the clubhouse as Rosenthal painted him.   None of his teammates ever thought he was.   As Tony points out, the local media had a much greater ability to shape public opinion back then.   And I think Rosenthal abused that power to turn a lot of people in Baltimore agianst Eddie.   (And some people in Baltimore were pre-disposed to be easily turned against Eddie due to the color of his skin.   That's just a fact, and a lot of them sat in the good seats behind the dugouts where they could be easily heard on the field).

That's a good response. 

But as I said, a ballplayer and a writer didn't like each other.  He didn't like the media, the media didn't like him.  It's not a rare case in sports.  Maybe at the time the media had more of a place to shape the way people were viewed but it seems like fans at the time liked Eddie no matter what was being reported.  

 

[JR Oriole]

1 hour ago, Roy Firestone said:

I want people to know, and Ive stated on the record this week that Brooks personally wrote a letter to Peter Angelos for a role in the organization at least 20 years ago.He would be hired to talk to the young players during Spring Training , offer some insights for veteran players on defense...and  make appearances on behalf of the franchise.

HE NEVER RECEIVED A RESPONSE.

 

John Angelos is a good man who has done great work in the community and now he is rightly hiring Oriole legends to help say and do positive things for the franchise...but in the case of Brooks....this should've been done two decades ago.

Brooks will be 82, God willing, next summer....I believe this move for him was too little..too late.

I actually had no idea about this.  Fans are emotionally attached to their teams....and especially to their legendary players.  It is very disappointing that his request was met with no response, but I shouldn't have expected anything more from PA.  He set the bar unbelievably low during his reign of ringless ineptitude.  I am glad to see things at least starting to change.