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Schoop, Service Time, and a Lesson on our Young Guys

BohKnowsBmore

By BohKnowsBmore
in Orioles Talk

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BohKnowsBmore Hangout Grand Counsel

BohKnowsBmore

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Jonathan Schoop broke camp with the 2014 Orioles and was a fixture of the team until he was dealt away to the Brewers earlier today.  While I was opposed to bringing him up at the time due to service time considerations and his youth, I understood the decision if the team thought he gave them the best shot at 2B.  The O's had been in the playoffs in 2012 and had looked like a better club in several ways during the 2013 season (despite missing the playoffs).  While the team ended up in the playoffs that year (their strongest season during this past window), it came at the expense of Schoop reaching FA following the 2019 season, rather than the 2020 season.

While I'm not here to second guess that decision, I think it's instructive to current decision-making.  I hear a lot of calls in the local media and from fans to bring up guys like Mullins and others now (or very soon).  That seems like lunacy.  While I don't necessarily think service time considerations should trump all else, I don't really see the benefit of having guys like Mullins, Mountcastle or Diaz come up at any point other than as September call-ups.  2018 is already a wasted season (maybe the #1 overall pick).  2019 will likely be a lost cause as well w/r/t the standings.  Why needlessly burn years of service, which would largely be counterproductive?  Wouldn't it make more sense, by far, to bring these guys up a few weeks into 2019 at the earliest?

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ISU94 Major Leaguer Rising Star

ISU94

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1 minute ago, Rene88 said:

Good points all around.  I also thing we need to be more aggressive locking younger players up.

I fully expect this to happen with John and Lou at the helm.

Was too late on Schoop and co.

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BohKnowsBmore Hangout Grand Counsel

BohKnowsBmore

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7 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Of they could have locked him up long term before he sold a percentage of his future earnings.

While this may be true, it’s not mutually exclusive with my point above. We can both be more forward thinking about locking up talent early AND avoid needlessly burning controllable years in losing seasons. The latter could even enable the former. 

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baltfan Hangout Grand Counsel

baltfan

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Yeah, I think when you win 96 games and go to the playoffs you bring guys up when you think they will help you.  You never know when your window will shut.  Also, Schoop has some promise, but it wasn’t like we were bringing up Manny. 

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eddie83 Hangout Grand Counsel

eddie83

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3 minutes ago, BohKnowsBmore said:

While this may be true, it’s not mutually exclusive with my point above. We can both be more forward thinking about locking up talent early AND avoid needlessly burning controllable years in losing seasons. The latter could even enable the former. 

Who do you think will be the starting CF next year? I think it will be Mullins. 

The only advantage of waiting until September is if he gets sent down next year. Like Sisco this year he would not have to be down as long to get that service year back. 

I have no desire to see Mountcastle and Diaz rushed up here. Other than Mullins and Stewart who are both farther along ,I would hope the rest of the prospects aren’t here until mid 2019 at the earliest.  

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eddie83 Hangout Grand Counsel

eddie83

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The way it looks Sisco will not be up in time to accrue a full year of service time this year.

That would mean at most Sisco, Mullins and possibly Stewart will earn that next year. If some of the rest of the prospects come up next year- not a given- we would have them under control through 2025, with 2020 being their first full year.  

In a perfect world you try to keep as many players together as long as possible but you also have to look at where each player is individually. I think Mullins definitely deserves a chance now.  

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sportsfan8703 Hangout Grand Counsel

sportsfan8703

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I don’t think extending Schoop was a good idea. He’s a big 2nd basemen that doesn’t walk. He doesn’t grind ABs out. He has some of the worst range for an 2B in the league. If he loses any type of atleticsim and power he’d be a 3B with a .650 OPS. 

That’s not worth $20 million a year. 

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weams Hangout Grand Counsel

weams

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17 hours ago, BohKnowsBmore said:

Jonathan Schoop broke camp with the 2014 Orioles and was a fixture of the team until he was dealt away to the Brewers earlier today.  While I was opposed to bringing him up at the time due to service time considerations and his youth, I understood the decision if the team thought he gave them the best shot at 2B.  The O's had been in the playoffs in 2012 and had looked like a better club in several ways during the 2013 season (despite missing the playoffs).  While the team ended up in the playoffs that year (their strongest season during this past window), it came at the expense of Schoop reaching FA following the 2019 season, rather than the 2020 season.

While I'm not here to second guess that decision, I think it's instructive to current decision-making.  I hear a lot of calls in the local media and from fans to bring up guys like Mullins and others now (or very soon).  That seems like lunacy.  While I don't necessarily think service time considerations should trump all else, I don't really see the benefit of having guys like Mullins, Mountcastle or Diaz come up at any point other than as September call-ups.  2018 is already a wasted season (maybe the #1 overall pick).  2019 will likely be a lost cause as well w/r/t the standings.  Why needlessly burn years of service, which would largely be counterproductive?  Wouldn't it make more sense, by far, to bring these guys up a few weeks into 2019 at the earliest?

Great. I knew it would come to this even way back then!

In the meantime. Watch this!

 

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weams Hangout Grand Counsel

weams

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By the way. A friend of mine said back then. And probably would today. "You don't play for an extra year on THAT type of player. You don't look to Super Two them. They get way to expensive even if they are kinda good.  Get what you CAN while you CAN. Or something very close to that. 

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Redskins Rick Hangout Grand Counsel

Redskins Rick

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17 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Of they could have locked him up long term before he sold a percentage of his future earnings.

In this ERA of big dollars, not sure how many agents these days, are willing to let their guys give up their big dollar possibility.

Like somebody mentioned Andy and his wheeling dealing days, this is not the same baseball now as it was.

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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3 minutes ago, weams said:

By the way. A friend of mine said back then. And probably would today. "You don't play for an extra year on THAT type of player. You don;t look to Super Two them They get way to expensive even if they are kinda good.  Get what you CAN while you CAN. Or something very close to that. 

I'm a firm believer in only playing service games with the guys you really think are going to amount to something.

I think the O's agree since Wieters is the only example I can think of them doing it.

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wildbillhiccup Hangout Grand Counsel

wildbillhiccup

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17 hours ago, BohKnowsBmore said:

Jonathan Schoop broke camp with the 2014 Orioles and was a fixture of the team until he was dealt away to the Brewers earlier today.  While I was opposed to bringing him up at the time due to service time considerations and his youth, I understood the decision if the team thought he gave them the best shot at 2B.  The O's had been in the playoffs in 2012 and had looked like a better club in several ways during the 2013 season (despite missing the playoffs).  While the team ended up in the playoffs that year (their strongest season during this past window), it came at the expense of Schoop reaching FA following the 2019 season, rather than the 2020 season.

While I'm not here to second guess that decision, I think it's instructive to current decision-making.  I hear a lot of calls in the local media and from fans to bring up guys like Mullins and others now (or very soon).  That seems like lunacy.  While I don't necessarily think service time considerations should trump all else, I don't really see the benefit of having guys like Mullins, Mountcastle or Diaz come up at any point other than as September call-ups.  2018 is already a wasted season (maybe the #1 overall pick).  2019 will likely be a lost cause as well w/r/t the standings.  Why needlessly burn years of service, which would largely be counterproductive?  Wouldn't it make more sense, by far, to bring these guys up a few weeks into 2019 at the earliest?

The real lessen here is that the service time rule is counterproductive to the game and needs to be changed. I think there's also something to be said for letting younger players learn at the MLB level, if you're a team that has that luxury. 

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