The Victor Victor Mesa/Sandy Gaston thread

[wildbillhiccup]

2 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

The past is the best predictor of the future.  And Cashner is going to suck for awhile.

I feel like Cobb could be respectable.

I agree with this. Cobb's not a front end guy (though me might be on this team!), but he's certainly capable of being a middle of the road starting pitcher, even in the AL East. As for Cashner...they could have signed someone like Tyson Ross to a minor league deal instead of wasting money on him. I know hindsight is 20/20, but the advanced metrics didn't support Cashner being able to repeat his 2017 season. They didn't need 20/20 vision to read those tea leaves. Also, it was largely suspected that Brady was a Tillman proponent and we know how that worked out. So if he had a hand in signing Davis, Trumbo, Tillman, Cashner, and Cobb he's one for five. So basically his success rate is about the same as Chris Davis' batting average. Ironic, dontcha think? 

[Ripken]

I give the Orioles a 10% chance.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, wildbillhiccup said:

I agree with this. Cobb's not a front end guy (though me might be on this team!), but he's certainly capable of being a middle of the road starting pitcher, even in the AL East. As for Cashner...they could have signed someone like Tyson Ross to a minor league deal instead of wasting money on him. I know hindsight is 20/20, but the advanced metrics didn't support Cashner being able to repeat his 2017 season. They didn't need 20/20 vision to read those tea leaves. Also, it was largely suspected that Brady was a Tillman proponent and we know how that worked out. So if he had a hand in signing Davis, Trumbo, Tillman, Cashner, and Cobb he's one for five. So basically his success rate is about the same as Chris Davis' batting average. Ironic, dontcha think? 

They didn't expect him to repeat those numbers, the question was how much he would decline.

[wildbillhiccup]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

He did more than trade Stanton. 

How about that Christian Yelich eh, what a season he had.  He made 7M and put up 7.6 rWAR.

How about the way they fired Mr Marlin?

You had me until Mr. Marlin. Can't stand that dude. That said, I truly don't understand what Jeter's doing / trying to do. The Stanton move made some sense to me (although the return was awful), but trading Yelich and heavily shopping Realmuto did not. I think he's another great example of why good baseball players typically don't make good GMs and/or managers. 

 

[wildbillhiccup]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

They didn't expect him to repeat those numbers, the question was how much he would decline.

...but it was silly for a team in transition to give a pitcher like that a multi-year deal. 

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

You had me until Mr. Marlin. Can't stand that dude. That said, I truly don't understand what Jeter's doing / trying to do. The Stanton move made some sense to me (although the return was awful), but trading Yelich and heavily shopping Realmuto did not. I think he's another great example of why good baseball players typically don't make good GMs and/or managers. 

 

What do you have against Jeff Conine?

Are you talking about Marlins Man?

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

You had me until Mr. Marlin. Can't stand that dude. That said, I truly don't understand what Jeter's doing / trying to do. The Stanton move made some sense to me (although the return was awful), but trading Yelich and heavily shopping Realmuto did not. I think he's another great example of why good baseball players typically don't make good GMs and/or managers. 

 

The ownership group did not actually have enough money to buy the team.

They are cutting payroll as low as they can so they can suck money out of the team to help pay for the team.

[Moose Milligan]

6 minutes ago, Ripken said:

I give the Orioles a 10% chance.

When I found out that VVM's agent is Marc Anthony,  you know, this guy:

 

 

...and that the agency is based in Miami, I quickly realized the O's have maybe a 1% chance.  

 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Moose Milligan said:

When I found out that VVM's agent is Marc Anthony,  you know, this guy:

 

 

...and that the agency is based in Miami, I quickly realized the O's have maybe a 1% chance.  

 

If the chance was that low they would have signed a deal already and never would have had a workout day.

[Moose Milligan]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

If the chance was that low they would have signed a deal already and never would have had a workout day.

Dog and pony show.  Gammons IIRC tweeted the other day that he heard that it's already been agreed upon.

Why have a workout day?  I dunno.  Maybe just to make it look good so they can say everyone saw him and everyone had a chance to meet him and make an offer.  I'm sure VVMs sleazy looking lounge singer....er... agent doesn't want to hear any whining about how he blocked other teams from getting him if he went to Miami directly and no one got a chance to meet with him.

That's what I'd do if it were me.  "Hey Victor Victor, it's all teed up and ready to go, you're going to be a Miami Marlin.  Of course they can't pay you as much as some of the other teams but you'll be in sunny Miami all year and playing in front of a Cuban crowd.  You're gonna love it.  But just to make sure everything is on the up and up, I want to make sure we can still have a workout day for you where you can go through some paces for the other teams so they can't make accusations we didn't give them a shot.  Is that cool with you?  Yeah, I know, Baltimore thinks they have a shot but I know you didn't want to consider them.  Ok, great.  Congrats on being a Marlin!"

[Roll Tide]

42 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

...like I said if either of them do better for the remaining years of their contracts then we can reevaluate, but right now all we have to judge them by is their 2018 season. And both stunk. And if you're comfortable with your 4th starter having a 5+ era then I think you might need to raise your expectations a bit. 

IMO, Cashner was a complete waste of money. His 2017 numbers was fools gold. 

They got two of the best players on the market. They didn't want to give up prospects to make a trade. I'd say they did what they had to do considering what they had to work with.

Most people were pretty excited about the Cobb signing. People were pretty Meh about the Cashner deal but they usually are when you ink a back of the rotation guy.

Yhey dealt KG and Buck struggled to get through the season with the starters.

Honestly ... I'd sign those two all over again if I had it to do....Hard to fault the decision makers for a guy underperforming.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Roll Tide said:

They got two of the best players on the market. They didn't want to give up prospects to make a trade. I'd say they did what they had to do considering what they had to work with.

Most people were pretty excited about the Cobb signing. People were pretty Meh about the Cashner deal but they usually are when you ink a back of the rotation guy.

Yhey dealt KG and Buck struggled to get through the season with the starters.

Honestly ... I'd sign those two all over again if I had it to do....Hard to fault the decision makers for a guy underperforming.

I do wish Cobb hadn't cost a first round pick.  (Yes I know what I said)

[Ripken]

26 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

When I found out that VVM's agent is Marc Anthony,  you know, this guy:

 

...and that the agency is based in Miami, I quickly realized the O's have maybe a 1% chance.  

Does V2 like crab?  Having the workout in Miami doesn't help either.

[wildbillhiccup]

28 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

What do you have against Jeff Conine?

Are you talking about Marlins Man?

Yes, I was. I read it as Marlins Man.

[Roll Tide]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

Do you really think a half season of ineptitude is because he missed spring training?  I'll give a guy April if he misses spring training but not until the all star break.

His ERA was 1.15 runs higher than his career average.

1st half .313 BA against and 6.41 ERA

2nd half  .232 BA Against and 2.56 ERA

I can't explain why but I expected closer to the 2nd half pitcher. I'm sure the Orioles did as well....I expect 25-30 starts in 2019 with an ERA under 3.50

I can't fault the GM for signing him. He was a solid signing who we got cheap , he reported late hoping for more, and suffered to get on track.