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After a month of reflection, I still can’t believe how bad this team was

Frobby

By Frobby
in Orioles Talk

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Hallas Hangout Grand Counsel

Hallas

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20 hours ago, vatech1994 said:

I’ve got to be honest with all of you.  They have pretty much broken me.  I will always be an Orioles’ fan and I’ll never follow another team, but I just can’t get that excited about them anymore.  I totally agree with Frobby about Buck.  I love the guy but he was simply awful this season and pretty clearly mailed it in early.  The only option was to clean house and I agree with Tony that, even allowing for prior seasons where they just let contracts expire, I’m amazed they did nothing during the season if they knew DD & Buck were gone anyway.

I will still follow along loosely and watch along at times, but I just don’t ever see myself getting the passion back.  Maybe I’m wrong, but I just don’t feel it.

I mean, if the O's can rope me back in after the misery known as 1998-2012, they can probably rope me back in at some point in the future when they don't suck.  In the grand scheme of things, winning 47 games isn't really functionally worse than losing 57.  Either way we would be worst in the league.  If Buck managed better, if a couple things rolled our way, maybe we win 65.  We'd still be stuck in the same position.  At least this year the O's had the courtesy to let us know by early May that we didn't need to watch the rest of the season.

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Aristotelian Hangout Grand Counsel

Aristotelian

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It's amazing how many guys underperformed. Davis, Schoop, Cobb, and Sisco were all massive busts. Bundy, Cashner, Jones, Mancini, the entire bullpen, Trumbo, and Beckham all underperformed to varying degrees. That is practically every veteran on the roster except for Manny, Bleier, and Gausman. Some were predictable, some less so. Basically a massive team failure from the organization on down to the players. Bad offense, terrible defense, terrible pitching (starters and bullpen), every phase of the game.

47 wins puts us in the top 15 worst all time seasons, and the worst since the 2003 Tigers. To think that this team was worse than 1988 is just the ultimate humiliation.

I will admit, I had some hope that Cobb and Cashner could stabilize the rotation, and maybe pull off 80 wins. Not all the blame falls on DD and PA.

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linedrive Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

linedrive

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After living through an embarrassing 1988, I never thought it could get worse than that. But I was embarassingly wrong! I try not to get too negative and whine, but this team really let me down... everyone on the team- with Chris Davis being the worst culprit. Yeah, 2018 sucked, and I still can't believe Showalter was never fired in-season (as much as I loved the guy).

But I will remain cautiously optimistic. I remember the "Let the kids play" slogan when Brian Roberts was first coming up, and while the O's stank, at least some of the players were exciting to watch, and that's what I'm hoping for next season. I'll come out and watch this team lose 100 games next season if we have some good, young, exciting talent on the field, busting their butts, look like they want to be play 162 games with us, and practice good fundamental baseball. I'm not asking for a lot, am I?

Seriously, if some of these kids struggle, but show they're ready for the big leagues, then I'm okay with another losing year until we're ready to compete. We can't have guys that give up 9 runs without making it to the third inning. I'm okay if they give up 5 runs in 6 or 7 innings but keep us in games. But it would definitely help if one of these rookies were to have a strong 2019 and perhaps give us a Rookie of the Year award and something to brag about for 2020, and maybe a little hope for the future.

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theocean Major Leaguer

theocean

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21 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

It's amazing how many guys underperformed. Davis, Schoop, Cobb, and Sisco were all massive busts. Bundy, Cashner, Jones, Mancini, the entire bullpen, Trumbo, and Beckham all underperformed to varying degrees. That is practically every veteran on the roster except for Manny, Bleier, and Gausman. Some were predictable, some less so. Basically a massive team failure from the organization on down to the players. Bad offense, terrible defense, terrible pitching (starters and bullpen), every phase of the game.

47 wins puts us in the top 15 worst all time seasons, and the worst since the 2003 Tigers. To think that this team was worse than 1988 is just the ultimate humiliation.

I will admit, I had some hope that Cobb and Cashner could stabilize the rotation, and maybe pull off 80 wins. Not all the blame falls on DD and PA.

The thing is - there was some talent on the 2018 Orioles. It is amazing Rodrigo Lopez, Sidney Ponson, Jeff Conine, Marty Cordova, Chris Richard, Geronimo Gil, David Segui, and that crew won TWENTY more games in 2002.

As much as I like Buck, he couldn't get the 2018 Orioles to play anywhere close to their potential.

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Ohfan67 Hangout Grand Counsel

Ohfan67

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I love everyone posting how they have lost that loving feeling for the Orioles...on ORIOLEShangout!! You are all hopeless fanatics and are never ditching the Orioles. A hot start to the 2019 season that includes some rookies dealing and raking and we can que the “they pull me back in” scene from godfather 3. And by hot start I mean 6-3 or even 6-4. ?

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atomic Hangout Grand Counsel

atomic

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5 hours ago, Redskins Rick said:

I think daddy got back involved and back to micromanaging and ruined any chance they had on going to the next level.

 

2016 was fun too, just not as much. It was still winning baseball in the fall.

2016 was ruined by Buck. If they had brought Britton and he had gotten hammered and lost I could accept that but I think Buck's stupid move was the end of the era.  

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SteveA Hangout Grand Counsel

SteveA

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Watching Davis flail through the season he had, knowing that there was no BASEBALL reason for it and that it was purely a money-based decision.

Nothing against Chris, but him being on the team when he clearly doesn't deserve to be, takes a lot away from being able to enjoy the games.   How would you like to be a player, taught since you were a kid to do your best to help the team win, and always believing that if the coach put someone ahead of you it was because he thought it gave the team the best chance to win.   That way of thinking has been engrained in you since you were 5 years old.   And now for the first time in your life, someone is playing clearly not because anyone things he gives the team the best chance to win, but for reasons not between the lines.   And yet you have to go out there and compete night after night, week after week, as if you are trying to win games when clearly the management of your team wasn't.   It's hard to be a fan of a team like that.   Sure, if it was playing youngsters who might help in the future, it would be one thing.   But trotting someone out there who is incapable of helping the team win, isn't part of the future, and is stopping other people get opportunities... that's just soul-crushing.   I can't help but wonder if in some way that unquantifiable intangible factor caused this team to lose more games than they should have just based on the talent they have.   

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foxfield Hangout Grand Counsel

foxfield

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On 10/31/2018 at 1:13 PM, weams said:

Andy did the five year clock in Philadelphia. 

 

On 10/31/2018 at 1:49 PM, 24fps said:

He may succeed in four this time and good for him.  Lord knows he needs a change, teams he's led haven't had a winning season since 2004.  IMO the only magic about 5-year plans is they turn into self-fullfilling prophesies all to easily.  I sincerely hope the next President/GM combo have an aversion to complacency and everybody in the organization knows it.

Regarding the two posts above...the clock Andy used always irked me.  And while the team was set up pretty nicely as he departed, when DD arrived, he said he intended to win now and he did.  And while he was given plenty of players to work with, when he arrived... no one thought the Orioles were going to win.  Of course here we are now...

22 hours ago, Aristotelian said:

It's amazing how many guys underperformed. Davis, Schoop, Cobb, and Sisco were all massive busts. Bundy, Cashner, Jones, Mancini, the entire bullpen, Trumbo, and Beckham all underperformed to varying degrees. That is practically every veteran on the roster except for Manny, Bleier, and Gausman. Some were predictable, some less so. Basically a massive team failure from the organization on down to the players. Bad offense, terrible defense, terrible pitching (starters and bullpen), every phase of the game.

47 wins puts us in the top 15 worst all time seasons, and the worst since the 2003 Tigers. To think that this team was worse than 1988 is just the ultimate humiliation.

I will admit, I had some hope that Cobb and Cashner could stabilize the rotation, and maybe pull off 80 wins. Not all the blame falls on DD and PA.

It is very painful to think back to April and remember that I thought if only everything goes right...this team could be in the hunt for a playoff spot.

18 hours ago, SteveA said:

Watching Davis flail through the season he had, knowing that there was no BASEBALL reason for it and that it was purely a money-based decision.

Nothing against Chris, but him being on the team when he clearly doesn't deserve to be, takes a lot away from being able to enjoy the games.   How would you like to be a player, taught since you were a kid to do your best to help the team win, and always believing that if the coach put someone ahead of you it was because he thought it gave the team the best chance to win.   That way of thinking has been engrained in you since you were 5 years old.   And now for the first time in your life, someone is playing clearly not because anyone things he gives the team the best chance to win, but for reasons not between the lines.   And yet you have to go out there and compete night after night, week after week, as if you are trying to win games when clearly the management of your team wasn't.   It's hard to be a fan of a team like that.   Sure, if it was playing youngsters who might help in the future, it would be one thing.   But trotting someone out there who is incapable of helping the team win, isn't part of the future, and is stopping other people get opportunities... that's just soul-crushing.   I can't help but wonder if in some way that unquantifiable intangible factor caused this team to lose more games than they should have just based on the talent they have.   

Steve this is an excellent post.  And it is hard to know what broke in Baltimore.  Was it not using Britton?  Trumbo rejecting pie?  I don't know.  I do know that until 2017, the team pretty consistently beat it's pythagorean number and then all of a sudden, it turned midnight and it was gone.

Of course along the way, pitching got worse, defense collapsed and home run hitters did not.

Going forward, I do not see how this team can attempt to build anything with Chris Davis on the roster.  He either earns it or he has to go.  No President, GM or Manager can build on credibility otherwise.

Of course...I am resolved to there being an Oriole Way.

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Redskins Rick Hangout Grand Counsel

Redskins Rick

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On 10/31/2018 at 7:47 PM, atomic said:

2016 was ruined by Buck. If they had brought Britton and he had gotten hammered and lost I could accept that but I think Buck's stupid move was the end of the era.  

I would rather have 2016 end on a bad note like that.

Its also only stupid, because it didnt work, and hindsight allows you to continue to complain about it.

Then to spend an entire season and win 50 games.

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LookitsPuck Hangout Grand Counsel

LookitsPuck

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On 10/30/2018 at 3:51 PM, Frobby said:

Buck was awful this year.    I say that even though I supported just about everything Buck did over the previous 7+ seasons.   

Yeah, he stunk this year. And this roster was a disaster.

Our best starting pitchers by FIP:

  • Kevin Gausman - 4.58
  • Alex Cobb - 4.80
  • Dylan Bundy -  5.17
  • Yefrey Ramirez - 5.29
  • Andrew Cashner - 5.32
  • David Hess - 5.80

Could you imagine how much of a disaster this club would have been without Cobb and Cashner trying to buoy the club? Good grief.

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wildbillhiccup Hangout Grand Counsel

wildbillhiccup

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On 10/31/2018 at 3:12 PM, Aristotelian said:

It's amazing how many guys underperformed. Davis, Schoop, Cobb, and Sisco were all massive busts. Bundy, Cashner, Jones, Mancini, the entire bullpen, Trumbo, and Beckham all underperformed to varying degrees. That is practically every veteran on the roster except for Manny, Bleier, and Gausman. Some were predictable, some less so. Basically a massive team failure from the organization on down to the players. Bad offense, terrible defense, terrible pitching (starters and bullpen), every phase of the game.

47 wins puts us in the top 15 worst all time seasons, and the worst since the 2003 Tigers. To think that this team was worse than 1988 is just the ultimate humiliation.

I will admit, I had some hope that Cobb and Cashner could stabilize the rotation, and maybe pull off 80 wins. Not all the blame falls on DD and PA.

I respectfully disagree. Blaming this on underperformance somewhat absolves ownership/management of assembling one of the worst teams in MLB history. Davis, Cashner, and Beckham are all bad players. Sisco was a complete wildcard and the regressions for Mancini, Bundy, and Jones were somewhat expected. In fact the only player who I think legitimately underperformed was Cobb. Also, ownership/management put this team in a position to be terrible defensively by rostering up to a half dozen gloried DHs. Trumbo, Mancini, Alvarez, Valencia, Beckham, etc. Everyone who had a hand in this who can be fired should be fired, but unfortunately there's still one side burned barnacle still clinging to the underside of the ship. 

 

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wildbillhiccup Hangout Grand Counsel

wildbillhiccup

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49 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

I would rather have 2016 end on a bad note like that.

Its also only stupid, because it didnt work, and hindsight allows you to continue to complain about it.

Then to spend an entire season and win 50 games.

The move was wrong at the time and wrong in hindsight. It was unconventional and stupid. 

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