Which of the 2012-16 Orioles would you put in the Orioles HOF?

[ScGO's]

Surprised there is no love for Tilly.  Was 65-33 in our glory years from 2012-2016

[Enjoy Terror]

3 hours ago, PaulFolk said:

Hardy is a stone-cold lock for the Orioles HOF. What possible argument is there against Hardy when Mike Bordick is in the Orioles HOF?

You’ll have to ask the people who made that argument for Bordick. It wasn’t me.

[Can_of_corn]

3 hours ago, PaulFolk said:

I very much disagree on this. Hardy was certainly a fan favorite, even after he stopped being productive (don't forget the "J! J! Hardy!" chants every time he batted). And he was absolutely a clubhouse leader. It seems like every week we'd see an interview with an infielder or a young player talking about how important Hardy was in mentoring them. Plenty of Orioles talked about how he had all the makings of a future manager.

I also think you're selling him short in calling him a "solid" defender. He was quite a bit better than solid for most of his career. He won three Gold Gloves as an Oriole, and they were all deserving.

Hardy is a stone-cold lock for the Orioles HOF. What possible argument is there against Hardy when Mike Bordick is in the Orioles HOF?

The question is who would you put into the Orioles' Hall of Fame. 

Not who do you think will be put into the Orioles' Hall of Fame.

[foxfield]

Hardy Jones and Markakis are locks.  Manny is a lock with an asterisk because  a) he was traded and b) he was hurt in his best chance to help, c) But he should be included.

If the Orioles suck for the next 15 years...

Britton, Oday, Schoop, Tillman, Wieiters and yes even Davis will make as well.  In that order for me.  What will matter is time.  How much before the O's are good again?  How long before there are new playoff teams to consider?  A 5 year rebuild followed by three deep playoff runs and no name on this lists other than the top 4 make it.

Buck Showalter needs to be included and time will only help his legacy.  He should be in Hardy, Jones and Markakis and Manny territory as stone cold locks.  

 

 

 

[foxfield]

Schoop over time will to me will thought more highly than BRob.  And I fully understand I will be in a minority.  It's more about how much I like Schoop than dislike Brian.  But ultimately it's this... Jonathan Schoop, never got nabbed/accused/tagged with roids.  And he never gave himself a concussion.

And if we vote entirely on the period 12-16, I think my answer above shots Tilly.  Again, I think time will factor in and all of these guys will make it.  Unless the Orioles replace those names with others who lead them to playoff seasons.

 

[CharmCityRocker]

There's room for all ten of those guys, and W. Chen, in my opinion.  

A more interesting question to me is who, from the pre-2012 period, goes in over the next few years.  I guess if JJ Hardy stays retired, he will be the first of the playoff group in.  Not sure how long the gap between retirement and eligibility is, or if there's even a hard and fast rule about it.  

Who of the non-retired pre-2012 class could get in?  Palmiero and Tejada would probably be in already on merit alone, were it not for the alleged B12 incident.  Who else then?  Jeremy Guthrie?  Jim Johnson (after he retires)?  Rodrigo Lopez?  Sweet Lou Montanez?

[TonySoprano]

16 hours ago, CharmCityRocker said:

There's room for all ten of those guys, and W. Chen, in my opinion.  

A more interesting question to me is who, from the pre-2012 period, goes in over the next few years.  I guess if JJ Hardy stays retired, he will be the first of the playoff group in.  Not sure how long the gap between retirement and eligibility is, or if there's even a hard and fast rule about it.  

Who of the non-retired pre-2012 class could get in?  Palmiero and Tejada would probably be in already on merit alone, were it not for the alleged B12 incident.  Who else then?  Jeremy Guthrie?  Jim Johnson (after he retires)?  Rodrigo Lopez?  Sweet Lou Montanez?

There used to be a rule same as Cooperstown about being out of uniform for 5 years.  The Hendricks family voiced a lot of opposition to that rule , so Ellie was inducted in 2001, while he was still the bullpen coach.  Ripken followed in 2003, two years after his retirement.  Brady got the nod the following year, and was also two years retired.

http://www.orioleadvocates.org/hofers-by-year.html

[PaulFolk]

On 11/10/2018 at 7:08 PM, Enjoy Terror said:

You’ll have to ask the people who made that argument for Bordick. It wasn’t me.

Regardless, the precedent has been set. Bordick is in, so Hardy pretty much has to be in. And I'd vote for him either way.

[Moose Milligan]

Bordick had the unenviable task of being the guy who they acquired to move Cal from SS to 3B.   I remember reading the WaPo article about it, sitting on the back steps of my high school and doing my best to not flip my $#*%.  If you think 37 year old Moose Milligan is bad, you should have seen the 1996 offseason version.  

And while Bordick's stat sheet here certainly doesn't warrant an Orioles HoF nod, he was a solid player and I ended up really liking him.  I mean, way, way better than Manny Alexander.  Remember when Manny Alexander was the heir apparent?  F that guy. 

My point is that Bordick had a really, really hard job when he got here.  And it's not like they sent Cal packing, either.  No, the living legend that he had to replace was standing 30 feet to his right the whole time.  Bordick handled it with class and grace, was a good defender (don't whip out advanced stats on me, let me have my memories) and wasn't a complete liability with his bat.  So while the stats don't add up to being an O's HoFer, I think a lot of his induction has to do with how he handled a sticky situation.  IMO, that's one of the things that a teams HoF is for, guys that might not have dazzling stats but mean something to a fanbase or a community.  

Hardy definitely gets my vote.  He's a top 3 or 4 Orioles SS of all time.  3 gold gloves, an all star nod and a silver slugger.  A central piece to some good O's teams.  

 

[Moose Milligan]

Here's a question for you savages, if Chris Davis was not quite as good as he was during the glory years but still respectable, would you be voting for him?

Say over the past three years he was consistently somewhere between .240-.260 batting average/.340-.360 on base with less power, say 23-28 homers.  Certainly not a great player but not the abysmal Davis that we've seen.  Do you have a different outlook on him for O's HoF?  Because the window we're looking at in the original OP is a 4 year stretch that he'd definitely have to be considered for.

Obviously this isn't going the way anyone wanted it to, but Davis was still a really important part to those teams.  

[ChrisP]

Where's Buck?

[Moose Milligan]

23 minutes ago, ChrisP said:

Where's Buck?

I think it's generally accepted that Buck is an Orioles Hall of Famer, no doubt.  Even his biggest detractors over the past couple of years would admit to it if they have any interest in being objective.

[webbrick2010]

On ‎11‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 5:32 PM, Moose Milligan said:

All except O'Day, Schoop.

I know we like to bash on Davis but he was a key component to those teams.  He probably won't make the O's HOF if this keeps up but he was a contender for awhile.

His "good" years (2013, 2015) we missed the playoffs. His horrible years (2014, 2016) were the O's playoff years

He selfishly failed a drug test and got himself suspended in 2014 when the O's had a legitimate chance of making the World Series, and also hit .196 for the year.

And of course he signed a franchise destroying contract and was not even a replacement level player.

No way he ever sees the O's HOF.

[Aglets]

38 minutes ago, ChrisP said:

Where's Buck?

I'm guessing in Texas but can't confirm.

[Moose Milligan]

10 minutes ago, webbrick2010 said:

His "good" years (2013, 2015) we missed the playoffs. His horrible years (2014, 2016) were the O's playoff years

He selfishly failed a drug test and got himself suspended in 2014 when the O's had a legitimate chance of making the World Series, and also hit .196 for the year.

And of course he signed a franchise destroying contract and was not even a replacement level player.

No way he ever sees the O's HOF.

Did we miss the playoffs because of his good years?  Did we make the playoffs because of his horrible years?  If his horrible year was 2014 where we had a legit shot to make the WS, was not making the WS his fault because of his horrible year?

Is it his fault that he signed a franchise destroying contract?  Who offered it to him?