Fast forward 4 to 5 five years

[mrbig1]

I don't want to start a new thread but Frank Robinson is in very bad health. Might not be with us much longer. He and Brooks were the heroes growing up. Getting back to the topic. When was the last time the O's sign a big name FA?  With P.A. running the team that will not happen. So youth is the way to go.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, mrbig1 said:

I don't want to start a new thread but Frank Robinson is in very bad health. Might not be with us much longer. He and Brooks were the heroes growing up. Getting back to the topic. When was the last time the O's sign a big name FA?  With P.A. running the team that will not happen. So youth is the way to go.

Chris Davis.

 

There is already a thread about Frank.

[Frobby]

7 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Chris Davis.

 

There is already a thread about Frank.

If you want to talk about free agents outside our organization, the last real big one was probably Miguel Tejada in 2003-04.    Unless you want to count Cobb or Ubaldo.

[Satyr3206]

The answer is to look at the Astro's right now. Their Farm system is still pretty good.

[Beef Supreme]

3 hours ago, Dipper9 said:

Not to be a pessimist, but in 5 years I'll be turning 50, and I'll have gone 41 years since the last time the Orioles were in the World Series.  4 friggin decades.  That's pretty disgusting when you get right to it, and the Orioles franchise should be glad they have such a loyal fan base to stand by waiting for 40 years.  

 

3 hours ago, Legend_Of_Joey said:

The Pittsburgh Pirates, Cleveland Indians, San Diego Padres, Texas Rangers, Milwaukee Brewers, Seattle Marines, and Washington Nationals/Montreal Expos fans want to have a word…

The Indians went to the World Series just TWO YEARS AGO. Also, Rangers were in the World Series in 2010 and 2011 -- twice in the past nine years! The Padres have also participated twice in the World Series - 1984 and 1998 since the Orioles last trip. The real number of teams whose fanbases have been waiting longer than the Orioles' fans are four, not seven.

I hope we only have to wait two more years for a World Series appearance.

[Beef Supreme]

1 hour ago, OrioleDog said:

I'm with you on this, just playing with return to competitiveness scenarios.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994–95_Major_League_Baseball_strike

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/longest-strike-in-major-league-baseball-history-ends

It's a few years away, but in retrospect I don't precisely recall what CBA conditions were in 1994.  Was the year played without a CBA, did the players walk out in the middle of one, or was the CBA renewal in the middle of the season?

It's also interesting to see ownership pitched 4-year free agency with their salary cap then, along with the ubiquitous argument that rising salaries will bankrupt teams.

I'm wondering if I'm too confident play through the 2021 World Series is safe under the current CBA.

December 31, 1993. CBA-7 expires without much in the way of ongoing negotiations.  

1994

January 18, 1994.  The owners agree on a revenue sharing plan (details unannounced) but tie its adoption to the players agreeing to a salary cap. Bud Selig, head of the owners’ Executive Council, tells the owners that if the players do not agree to a salary cap they should be prepared to lock the players out, and use replacement players.

June 14, 1994.  Eighteen months after voting to reopen the contract, the owners finally submit a proposal, incorporating the salary cap they have been publicly lobbying for: the players would receive 50% of all revenue, including players’ licensing money.  
 

July 18, 1994. The union formally rejects the salary cap proposal, and in their response they ask for arbitration after two years and an increase in the minimum salary.

July 27, 1994. Richard Ravitch rejects the union’s counter proposal.  The players vote to give the Executive Board authority to set a strike date. The next day the board approves a date of August 12.

August 12, 1994.  The players go on strike, feeling they need to act well before the end of the season to give the two sides time to negotiate before the profitable postseason.

September 14, 1994.  Owners cancel the rest of the season and post-season. Selig asks Fehr to make a joint announcement, but Fehr refuses.

November 29, 1994.  The owners announce they are unilaterally imposing their salary cap and revenue sharing plan as of December 5 and will open spring camps with replacement players if the strike is not settled.  Toronto is excepted because the scheme would violate Ontario provincial law.

December 10, 1994.  The union offers up a revised counterproposal: a tax at a flat rate of 5.02% on payrolls in 1995 with the raised funds to be distributed among small market clubs.  Also, players would qualify for unconditional free agency after four years, salary arbitration would be eliminated, and minimum salaries would be established for players with less than four years of service..

December 11, 1994.  The owners counter with a new proposal: a flat payroll tax of 5% shared with low end clubs, plus a secondary tax, based on revenue growth, to ensure the players’ share of revenue does not increase.

December 14, 1994.  Both sides reject each other’s plans.  The NLRB announces it will issue a complaint because owners had failed to deposit the $7.8 million allocation from All-Star Game to the players’ benefit/pension plan.

December 23, 1994.  The owners declare an impasse in the negotiations that they believe allows them to unilaterally implement their November 17 plan.

December 27, 1994.  The players file a complaint of unfair labor practice with the National Labor Relations Board office in New York and argue that the owner’s declaration of an impasse in invalid.  The case will be investigated by New York regional director Dan Silverman, reporting to NLRB general counsel Fred Feinstein.

1995

February 3, 1995.  NLRB counsel Fred Feinstein finds that the owners have negotiated in bad faith and plans to take the case before the NLRB for adjudication.  

February 4, 1995.  The players issue a counter proposal: a tax at 5% on payrolls between 50% and 130% of the average payroll, 15% on payrolls between 130% and 160%, 25% above 160%, and an end to salary arbitration if players are permitted unrestricted free agency after four years.

February 6, 1995.  The NLRB's deadline passes.  

February 7, 1995.  Usery recommends a solution: a 50% luxury tax on payrolls above $40 million and free agency after four years, a plan the union quickly rejects. President Clinton unsuccessfully hosts the negotiators and Usery in the White House’s Roosevelt Room for one final negotiating push, but the owners reject the president’s exhortation to submit to binding arbitration.  

Early March, 1995. Orioles owner Peter Angelos (as well as Reds' owner Marge Schott) refuses to field a team of replacement, despite numerous threats of fines and suspensions. Selig is forced to cancel all 32 Oriole preseason games.

March 14, 1995. The NLRB issues an unfair labor practice charge against the owners. Feinstein announces that he will ask for an injunction prohibiting the owners from implementing their scheme. Two days later he presents the case to the board.

 March 26, 1995.  The NLRB board votes 3-2 in favor of authorizing an injunction, the three Democratic nominees voting in favor, the two Republican nominees against. The next day the NLRB files in federal court for the injunction to prevent management from implementing its program.

March 29, 1995.  The players vote to end strike if the injunction is upheld.  

March 30, 1995. The owners vote to open the season with replacement players.

March 31, 1995.  US Federal Justice Sonya Sotomayor upholds the NLRB’s request for the injunction, returning the players’ labor situation to the pre-strike system, and the players call off their strike.

April 2, 1995. The owners meet in Chicago to plan their next move. Many owners want to lock the players out, but they cannot get the required 21 votes to do so. Instead, the owners agree to open camps on April 5, and the regular season on April 26. There will be a 144-game schedule.

April 5, 1995. The players report to spring training.

 

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, Beef Supreme said:

 

The Indians went to the World Series just TWO YEARS AGO. Also, Rangers were in the World Series in 2010 and 2011 -- twice in the past nine years! The Padres have also participated twice in the World Series - 1984 and 1998 since the Orioles last trip. The real number of teams whose fanbases have been waiting longer than the Orioles' fans are four, not seven.

I hope we only have to wait two more years for a World Series appearance.

The Orioles were in the ALCS, four years ago, right?  What does that get us but regular reminders that they sucked against the Royals?  I enjoyed 2014, but I doubt that the Padres losing the Series in 1998 is great comfort in 2019.

[Carllamy]

The Orioles in 2013, 4 years from now:

 

"Wow, who'd have thought Chris Davis would win the Silver Slugger Award" 3 years in a row."

"Re-signing Manny Machado to a seven year deal was the best thing the Orioles ever did."

"Did you hear, Hunter Harvey dislocated his shoulder ducking away from a foul ball that was hit while he was playing 'MLB The Show 22?'"

"The Orioles today sign pitcher Chris Tillman to a one year deal. According to Manager Brandon Hyde 'The ball looked really good coming out of his hand as he delivered it to the front office while making his usual UPS delivery to us.'"

"I really think the O's should give Mike Yastrzemski  a shot in the outfield this year. Sure, his numbers haven't been great in the minors, but what do we have to lose?"

"I'll bet no one saw Matt Hobgood making that comeback and being named the World Series MVP for the Orioles."

[theocean]

1 hour ago, DrungoHazewood said:

The Orioles were in the ALCS, four years ago, right?  What does that get us but regular reminders that they sucked against the Royals?  I enjoyed 2014, but I doubt that the Padres losing the Series in 1998 is great comfort in 2019.

Same thing with the Rays, the Rockies, the Indians, the Mets, the Rangers, and the Tigers - all recently made it with nothing to show for it. 

[SteveA]

4 hours ago, Beef Supreme said:

December 31, 1993. CBA-7 expires without much in the way of ongoing negotiations.  

1994

January 18, 1994.  The owners agree on a revenue sharing plan (details unannounced) but tie its adoption to the players agreeing to a salary cap. Bud Selig, head of the owners’ Executive Council, tells the owners that if the players do not agree to a salary cap they should be prepared to lock the players out, and use replacement players.

June 14, 1994.  Eighteen months after voting to reopen the contract, the owners finally submit a proposal, incorporating the salary cap they have been publicly lobbying for: the players would receive 50% of all revenue, including players’ licensing money.  
 

July 18, 1994. The union formally rejects the salary cap proposal, and in their response they ask for arbitration after two years and an increase in the minimum salary.

July 27, 1994. Richard Ravitch rejects the union’s counter proposal.  The players vote to give the Executive Board authority to set a strike date. The next day the board approves a date of August 12.

August 12, 1994.  The players go on strike, feeling they need to act well before the end of the season to give the two sides time to negotiate before the profitable postseason.

September 14, 1994.  Owners cancel the rest of the season and post-season. Selig asks Fehr to make a joint announcement, but Fehr refuses.

November 29, 1994.  The owners announce they are unilaterally imposing their salary cap and revenue sharing plan as of December 5 and will open spring camps with replacement players if the strike is not settled.  Toronto is excepted because the scheme would violate Ontario provincial law.

December 10, 1994.  The union offers up a revised counterproposal: a tax at a flat rate of 5.02% on payrolls in 1995 with the raised funds to be distributed among small market clubs.  Also, players would qualify for unconditional free agency after four years, salary arbitration would be eliminated, and minimum salaries would be established for players with less than four years of service..

December 11, 1994.  The owners counter with a new proposal: a flat payroll tax of 5% shared with low end clubs, plus a secondary tax, based on revenue growth, to ensure the players’ share of revenue does not increase.

December 14, 1994.  Both sides reject each other’s plans.  The NLRB announces it will issue a complaint because owners had failed to deposit the $7.8 million allocation from All-Star Game to the players’ benefit/pension plan.

December 23, 1994.  The owners declare an impasse in the negotiations that they believe allows them to unilaterally implement their November 17 plan.

December 27, 1994.  The players file a complaint of unfair labor practice with the National Labor Relations Board office in New York and argue that the owner’s declaration of an impasse in invalid.  The case will be investigated by New York regional director Dan Silverman, reporting to NLRB general counsel Fred Feinstein.

1995

February 3, 1995.  NLRB counsel Fred Feinstein finds that the owners have negotiated in bad faith and plans to take the case before the NLRB for adjudication.  

February 4, 1995.  The players issue a counter proposal: a tax at 5% on payrolls between 50% and 130% of the average payroll, 15% on payrolls between 130% and 160%, 25% above 160%, and an end to salary arbitration if players are permitted unrestricted free agency after four years.

February 6, 1995.  The NLRB's deadline passes.  

February 7, 1995.  Usery recommends a solution: a 50% luxury tax on payrolls above $40 million and free agency after four years, a plan the union quickly rejects. President Clinton unsuccessfully hosts the negotiators and Usery in the White House’s Roosevelt Room for one final negotiating push, but the owners reject the president’s exhortation to submit to binding arbitration.  

Early March, 1995. Orioles owner Peter Angelos (as well as Reds' owner Marge Schott) refuses to field a team of replacement, despite numerous threats of fines and suspensions. Selig is forced to cancel all 32 Oriole preseason games.

March 14, 1995. The NLRB issues an unfair labor practice charge against the owners. Feinstein announces that he will ask for an injunction prohibiting the owners from implementing their scheme. Two days later he presents the case to the board.

 March 26, 1995.  The NLRB board votes 3-2 in favor of authorizing an injunction, the three Democratic nominees voting in favor, the two Republican nominees against. The next day the NLRB files in federal court for the injunction to prevent management from implementing its program.

March 29, 1995.  The players vote to end strike if the injunction is upheld.  

March 30, 1995. The owners vote to open the season with replacement players.

March 31, 1995.  US Federal Justice Sonya Sotomayor upholds the NLRB’s request for the injunction, returning the players’ labor situation to the pre-strike system, and the players call off their strike.

April 2, 1995. The owners meet in Chicago to plan their next move. Many owners want to lock the players out, but they cannot get the required 21 votes to do so. Instead, the owners agree to open camps on April 5, and the regular season on April 26. There will be a 144-game schedule.

April 5, 1995. The players report to spring training.

 

Yep.   So the owners basically cancelled a pennant race and World Series in what could have been a very exciting season, and shortened the next season, for ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

And yet the idiot in charge at the time wound up in the Hall of Fame.   An utter disgrace.

[Beef Supreme]

Quote

 8 hours ago, Dipper9 said:

Not to be a pessimist, but in 5 years I'll be turning 50, and I'll have gone 41 years since the last time the Orioles were in the World Series.  4 friggin decades.  That's pretty disgusting when you get right to it, and the Orioles franchise should be glad they have such a loyal fan base to stand by waiting for 40 years.  

3 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

The Orioles were in the ALCS, four years ago, right?  What does that get us but regular reminders that they sucked against the Royals?  I enjoyed 2014, but I doubt that the Padres losing the Series in 1998 is great comfort in 2019.

 

The OP was about going to the WS. I didn't make the terms, I just cited the facts: Three of the seven teams previously listed as not having been to the World Series in the time since the Orioles last intended have, in fact, been to the World Series.

There was never any discussion about the last time teams went to their league's championship series. I don't get where that is pertinent to the OP.

[scOtt]

8 hours ago, foxfield said:

Not to be an optimist, but I will be turning 60 and I will have gone 40 ( I think the number in '23 would be 40)  years since the last time the Orioles were in the World Series.  But my fandom was formed primarily by those men depicted in statues at OPACY.  The Orioles were a model franchise for all of sports.  It has been a long period and it has been especially tough that so little has actually been good over the last 25+ years.  But I am encouraged at what I see and what I hear.

It may take 5 years to end the World Series draught.  But it won't take that long to know if we are on the right path.  So, it's almost like the wait is only 36.5 years.  

Let the good times roll!!!!

 

[DrungoHazewood]

8 hours ago, Beef Supreme said:

The OP was about going to the WS. I didn't make the terms, I just cited the facts: Three of the seven teams previously listed as not having been to the World Series in the time since the Orioles last intended have, in fact, been to the World Series.

There was never any discussion about the last time teams went to their league's championship series. I don't get where that is pertinent to the OP.

Yes, it is possible to split hairs in a way that make Oriole fans look long-suffering-ist.  So does that mean when we finally win we get to be obnoxious jerks in Fenway and nobody can say anything?

[wildbillhiccup]

19 hours ago, Diehard_O's_Fan said:

I look for the Orioles to be a winning playoff team in four to five years. I won't be surprised if it happens in three years actually. Let's just say four to five to play it safe. When the Orioles are a winning playoff team, will they continue to rely on the draft and player development or will they rely more on free agency? I don't want Mike Elias to make dumb decisions like Theo Epstein has done in Chicago. Theo has wasted millions of dollars on free agents. I would like to see Mike turn the Orioles farm system into the best farm system in  baseball. Instead of wasting millions of dollars in free agency, use your farm system as a way to improve your team. If you have an area of need, you trade one of your minor league players as a way to improve the major league team. Thoughts?

I think they have to continue to build from within and be very strategic about free agent acquisitions. Every team that can't write blank checks like the Yanks, Sox, Dodgers, and Cubs should be taking this approach. 

[Beef Supreme]

2 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Yes, it is possible to split hairs in a way that make Oriole fans look long-suffering-ist.  So does that mean when we finally win we get to be obnoxious jerks in Fenway and nobody can say anything?

I would hope Orioles fans would not become obnoxious jerks or dangerously violent like MFY fans. 

Again, I am just responding to the OP. I am not splitting hairs. I did not construct the criterion of which fan-base has suffered the longest.