Gio Gonzalez

[Going Underground]

14 minutes ago, Frobby said:

This is so far off base it isn’t even funny.  Do you know anything about Tom Boswell?    The guy actually invented a sabermetric stat called Total Average back in 1984, before many of today’s stats had been invented.  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_average.     I assure you he is completely up to date on modern stats, and cites them all the time in his columns.    And FWIW, Gio Gonzalez at 27.5 rWAR, 111 ERA+, 3.69 FIP has been a far, far better pitcher than Andrew Cashner at 8.8 rWAR, 98 ERA+, 4.19 FIP.

The one thing about Gio that I have noticed following the Nationals is he sometimes has Mike Wright syndrome. He sometimes does not handle adversity well 

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, wildbillhiccup said:

Gio's is no better than Lance Lynn. Lynn had to settle for a one year deal last year. Are we really surprised that Gio couldn't land a better contract? Is it really the utter travesty the columnist is making it out to be? 

Lynn “settled” for a $12 mm contract last year.    Gonzalez is hoping to make $3 mm if he gets called up.    So yes, I’d say Gio’s lack of a market is pretty surprising.   Honestly I wouldn’t have expected him to get $12 mm, but to not even get a major league deal is bizarre.

[Frobby]

11 minutes ago, Going Underground said:

The one thing about Gio that I have noticed following the Nationals is he sometimes has Mike Wright syndrome. He sometimes does not handle adversity well 

It’s true, he wears his emotions on his sleeve.  But he’s been an effective pitcher for a decade despite that, unlike Mike Wright.  

[wildbillhiccup]

25 minutes ago, Frobby said:

This is so far off base it isn’t even funny.  Do you know anything about Tom Boswell?    The guy actually invented a sabermetric stat called Total Average back in 1984, before many of today’s stats had been invented.  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_average.     I assure you he is completely up to date on modern stats, and cites them all the time in his columns.    And FWIW, Gio Gonzalez at 27.5 rWAR, 111 ERA+, 3.69 FIP has been a far, far better pitcher than Andrew Cashner at 8.8 rWAR, 98 ERA+, 4.19 FIP.

I'm sorry I didn't research the columnist before I posted, but you can understand how and why I made that assumption. He was acting like Gonzalez not getting a more lucrative contract was a a big deal and it's really not. At one time Gio Gonzalez was a slightly above average pitcher, but he was also a bit of a time bomb with very little margin for error because of his high walk rate. His average fastball velocity has also declined significantly over the years and his xFIP has increased over the last six years to the point where it's now in the mid 4s. If you let him pitch in the AL East for a full season I wouldn't be surprised if that number approaches 5.  That is not a good pitcher. It's the type of pitcher you sign as a contingency plan once two of your other pitchers (Severino and Sabathia) get injured, which is exactly what happened. And I wasn't comparing Cashner's career with Gio's. I was only citing his 2017 season as an example of a pitcher who's underlying numbers didn't back his success. In terms of present day comparisons I think there is very little difference between 2019 Gio Gonzalez and 2019 Andrew Cashner. Cashner might be slightly worse, but it's not by a large margin.

[wildbillhiccup]

12 minutes ago, Frobby said:

It’s true, he wears his emotions on his sleeve.  But he’s been an effective pitcher for a decade despite that, unlike Mike Wright.  

He "was" an effective pitcher. He isn't anymore. 

[wildbillhiccup]

16 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Lynn “settled” for a $12 mm contract last year.    Gonzalez is hoping to make $3 mm if he gets called up.    So yes, I’d say Gio’s lack of a market is pretty surprising.   Honestly I wouldn’t have expected him to get $12 mm, but to not even get a major league deal is bizarre.

Lynn was younger and coming off a better season. And Gio's call up is just a formality. It's going to happen and he'll get his $3M. So you might as well look at it as him signing a one year deal for that price. At this stage in his career I really don't think he's worth much more. 

[Frobby]

3 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

Lynn was younger and coming off a better season. And Gio's call up is just a formality. It's going to happen and he'll get his $3M. So you might as well look at it as him signing a one year deal for that price. At this stage in his career I really don't think he's worth much more. 

I don’t want to go on too much of a Gio tangent here on the Orioles board.    But to me the fact that this is a MiL deal is not necessarily a formality.    And, he’s worth quite a bit more than $3 mm in my opinion.   But obviously the market didn’t think so.    We’ll see if the Yankees got a bargain here — I certainly hope not!