I think we are better than the Tigers

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, LA2 said:

There are a lot of people who don't watch any game that has the Pats in it.

Or only watch hoping the Pats lose, just to be disappointed that it appears rigged once again.

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, Tx Oriole said:

There are too many teams. The talent is way watered down. 

I could (and have in the past) present a very long list of evidence that quality of play in the majors is better than it was 20 years ago, far better than it was 50 years ago, massively better than it was prior to WWII, and ridiculously ahead of where it was in Ruth's time.  I could make a good case that the majors in Cobb's and Ruth's time was a lower quality of play than today's Japanese Leagues.  My estimate is that an average MLB player from 1950 would be a minor leaguer today.  Just in the last 15 years an average MLB fastball has gone up 3-4 mph.  In 1980 there might have been 3-4 guys who could throw in the high 90s.  Now that's called the 7th inning of whatever game you turn on.

[atomic]

6 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

They're not going to give up the expanded revenues and interest generated by expanded playoffs.  Four teams in the playoffs is a complete non-starter.  Zero chance.

 The Premier League has other things to root for besides winning the league.  Champions League.  FA Cup.  League Cup.  Promotion/Relegation battles.  MLB has winning the World Series, and that's it.  Without playoffs involving a significant number of teams more than half the league will look up on opening day and hope next year is better, but it probably won't be.  You have to give people something to root for beyond a 1-in-50 or 1-in-100 chance of winning the Series.

 You say there is nothing wrong with a small handful of teams winning repeatedly.  I strongly disagree.  When ESPN became the Boston/NY channel I stopped watching.  When Boston and NY come to town, I don't go to games.  When the Pats are in the Super Bowl, I care even less than I would otherwise.  When the Yanks were in the World Series almost every year from 1947-57 attendance fell from 20M to 16M.  

 "willing to compete" really means "willing to spend with teams who have five times the population base".  Baseball needs to structure itself so that Milwaukee and Cleveland and Pittsburgh and Baltimore can regularly compete, not contract everyone that can't spend with the Cubs and Dodgers and Yanks and Sox.  Baseball's fatal flaw with expansion wasn't that they expanded, but that they didn't put five teams in NY, four in LA, three in Chicago and two or three in Boston.  Things would probably be improved if the PCL went major in the 1920s, and the Giants, Dodgers, Braves, A's and others were still in their original cities.

Those games with the Red Sox and Yankees are our biggest attended games and they jack the prices way up on those games.  Just because you don't like something doesn't mean others don't.

Is the NBA having trouble because Golden State Warriors are in the finals every year.  I like the Patriots and root for them to win every year that the Ravens aren't involved.

MLB 8 different champions in the last 11 years.

NBA 7 different champions in the last 11 years. 

NHL 7 different champions in the last 11 years

NFL 6 different champions in the last 11 years.

Premier League 4 different champions last 15 years

La Liga 3 different champions in the last 15 years. 

 

[DrungoHazewood]

Just now, atomic said:

Those games with the Red Sox and Yankees are our biggest attended games and they jack the prices way up on those games.  Just because you don't like something doesn't mean others don't.

Is the NBA having trouble because Golden State Warriors are in the finals every year.  I like the Patriots and root for them to win every year that the Ravens aren't involved.

MLB 8 different champions in the last 11 years.

NBA 7 different champions in the last 11 years. 

NHL 7 different champions in the last 11 years

NFL 6 different champions in the last 11 years.

Premier League 4 different champions last 15 years

La Liga 3 different champions in the last 15 years. 

 

It is a problem when as many people come to root for the visiting team as for the home team.  I couldn't care less if Yankee fans from Odenton come to OPACY.  I want a situation where Orioles fans from Odenton come to the game instead.

Yes, the NBA has a problem.  The NFL certainly has a problem.

There are two primary reasons why MLB appears to have more competitive balance than other leagues:  The multiple tiers of short playoff series, with MLB's roster and pitching, means that the best teams have a relatively small chance of winning.  And long schedules that rely on 5+ starters pitching 25+ times means you get many more favorable matchups between poor and good teams.  The NFL or NBA never has a game where the Patriot's 3rd-best QB has to start against the Browns.

International soccer certainly has a problem with competitive balance, both in leagues, and across leagues.  They tend to deal with that with multiple cup competitions and promotion/relegation battles.  Watford just played in the FA Cup final.  My favorite German team drew 57,000 to a 2nd/3rd division relegation game.  The Orioles and Marlins and Rays and others are drawing under 10k to games.

[atomic]

6 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

It is a problem when as many people come to root for the visiting team as for the home team.  I couldn't care less if Yankee fans from Odenton come to OPACY.  I want a situation where Orioles fans from Odenton come to the game instead.

 Yes, the NBA has a problem.  The NFL certainly has a problem.

 There are two primary reasons why MLB appears to have more competitive balance than other leagues:  The multiple tiers of short playoff series, with MLB's roster and pitching, means that the best teams have a relatively small chance of winning.  And long schedules that rely on 5+ starters pitching 25+ times means you get many more favorable matchups between poor and good teams.  The NFL or NBA never has a game where the Patriot's 3rd-best QB has to start against the Browns.

 International soccer certainly has a problem with competitive balance, both in leagues, and across leagues.  They tend to deal with that with multiple cup competitions and promotion/relegation battles.  Watford just played in the FA Cup final.  My favorite German team drew 57,000 to a 2nd/3rd division relegation game.  The Orioles and Marlins and Rays and others are drawing under 10k to games.

Who is your favorite German team.  My family is from Munich so you know who I root for. 

[atomic]

Also in the AL East all 5 teams have one the division at least once in the last 10 years. 

[foxfield]

7 minutes ago, atomic said:

Also in the AL East all 5 teams have one the division at least once in the last 10 years. 

Another way of saying the exact same thing is that the Yankees and Red Sox have won the AL East 7 of the last ten years.

 

 

Edit to add that since 1975 they have won all but 15 and 3 of those were won by the Tigers (2) and Brewers (1)

[atomic]

8 minutes ago, foxfield said:

Another way of saying the exact same thing is that the Yankees and Red Sox have won the AL East 7 of the last ten years.

The Yankees haven't won the division since 2012.  They are hardly the dominant team people make them out to be.  They seem more frugal these days as well. 

[foxfield]

1 minute ago, atomic said:

The Yankees haven't won the division since 2012.  They are hardly the dominant team people make them out to be.  They seem more frugal these days as well. 

I am very aware of the Yankees success or lack thereof depending on one's point of view.  I was merely pointing out your fact which alluded to parity in the AL East, could be factually restated to make an opposite point.  Picking random points with which to use data can do that.  The Yankees have not won the division since 2012 or the Series since 2009.  But no team in the Angelos Era has won the WS from the AL East except the Yankees (5) and the Red Sox (3).  And the periods of time when neither were very good were very small and have proven to be an exception and not a rule.  

 

[DrungoHazewood]

26 minutes ago, atomic said:

Who is your favorite German team.  My family is from Munich so you know who I root for. 

1860.  Die Löwen.  Mein Verein für alle Zeit.  

Now that I know you're a Bayern fan a lot of things start to fall into place.  They're the Yanks and Sox and Dodgers of Germany all rolled up into one.  I would never root for a team that fires the manager for the indignity of being a few points out of first place at the winter break.

[UpstateNYfan]

2 hours ago, Tx Oriole said:

There are too many teams. The talent is way watered down. 

This may be true. Youth have more choices of sports, commit to one or two at an early age. It is rare to see 3 sport athletes. But, the players are better conditioned and have better tools to improve their skills. Would pitchers like Guidry, Palmer, Cuellar be as good in todays game? DeCinces, Blair, Mattingly, Yaz, etc?? I'm not so sure.

[DrungoHazewood]

19 minutes ago, atomic said:

The Yankees haven't won the division since 2012.  They are hardly the dominant team people make them out to be.  They seem more frugal these days as well. 

Those same poor, downtrodden Yanks who have made the playoffs in 20 of the last 25 years and haven't had a losing record since 1992?  Yea, they're basically the same team as the Pirates.

[atomic]

5 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

1860.  Die Löwen.  Mein Verein für alle Zeit.  

Now that I know you're a Bayern fan a lot of things start to fall into place.  They're the Yanks and Sox and Dodgers of Germany all rolled up into one.  I would never root for a team that fires the manager for the indignity of being a few points out of first place at the winter break.

I am a Bayern fan as they have the best players and they are from where my family is from.  Most of the players from the most recent German World Cup championship were Bayern players at the time. 

Does anyone find our half-azz translation of their name weird? Shouldn't it either be Bayern Munchen or Bavaria Munich?

[atomic]

9 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Those same poor, downtrodden Yanks who have made the playoffs in 20 of the last 25 years and haven't had a losing record since 1992?  Yea, they're basically the same team as the Pirates.

Maybe we should become Yankee fans.  

[DrungoHazewood]

15 minutes ago, atomic said:

Maybe we should become Yankee fans.  

My goal as a fan isn't to make everything easy.  Winning shouldn't be treated as an entitlement.  I strongly dislike fanbases that treat winning as a birthright.  I'd like few things more than a good half-century of the Yanks and Sox winning 47 games a season.