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The second guessing Hyde thread.

Moose Milligan

By Moose Milligan
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Aristotelian Hangout Grand Counsel

Aristotelian

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, foxfield said:

When we are good enough to compete in the playoffs managing to win a playoff game will be important. Hyde will not be able to do what he is doing forever. But right now it is important to give guys the opportunity to get out the tight spot for multiple reasons. 

1) it really is a teaching opportunity for pitchers to learn how to navigate trouble. 
2). We need to eat innings because the pen is getting tons of use.

I commend Hyde for his patience. He is risking short term success for long term gain and for a young manager I think that is pretty insightful. 

I don't know, maybe "get the leadoff guy or you're coming out" could be a useful lesson.

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Frobby
Frobby

I HATED the decision to leave Tate in at the start of the 9th.  They’d already had Lopez warming up.  Just bring him in.  I would hsve guaranteed you that he was going to have to come in mid-inning if

RZNJ
RZNJ

One more thing.  The odds of Gillaspie stranding the ghost runner were definitely not good.  You don’t play for one run in the top of the tenth if you’re bringing him in.

dystopia
dystopia

It was a dumb post. I know it was dumb. I’m just having a day today. Sorry. 

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foxfield Hangout Grand Counsel

foxfield

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

I don't know, maybe "get the leadoff guy or you're coming out" could be a useful lesson.

See that is what I mean. Saying it is pretty easy to understand. You get it. Executing. Now that’s something else.

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Moshagge3 Hangout Grand Counsel

Moshagge3

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Making Kremer learn how to get through the later innings is something that would have made sense ten years ago, but I wonder if it's true anymore. If Dean Kremer is what we think, basically a guy whose upside is like a fourth starter, is he going to be routinely asked to go deep into games, barring rule changes concerning the number of pitchers on the roster? The Rays are the team a lot of us want to emulate, and I don't think Team Kevin Cash would hesitate to pull a guy after five strong innings if the top of the order for a dangerous offense was due up in the sixth. Shane McLanahan has been pulled after four innings in each of his starts this year.

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Moshagge3 Hangout Grand Counsel

Moshagge3

Posted
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28 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

I don't know, maybe "get the leadoff guy or you're coming out" could be a useful lesson.

I've always thought that was a weird strategy. Marwin Gonzalez has a .331 OBP and Verdugo has a .362 OBP. Based purely on those numbers, the chances of Kremer retiring both is less than 50-50. If leaving Kremer in means a *greater* than 50% chance that Plutko is going to have to come in with at least one basereunner and less than two outs, why not just give him the clean inning.

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Aristotelian Hangout Grand Counsel

Aristotelian

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1 hour ago, Moshagge3 said:

I've always thought that was a weird strategy. Marwin Gonzalez has a .331 OBP and Verdugo has a .362 OBP. Based purely on those numbers, the chances of Kremer retiring both is less than 50-50. If leaving Kremer in means a *greater* than 50% chance that Plutko is going to have to come in with at least one basereunner and less than two outs, why not just give him the clean inning.

If Kremer gets Marwin I don't mind him pitching to Verdugo. The issue is when he doesn't get the leadoff guy and now he's at risk of putting the go ahead run on base. Verdugo becomes a pretty high leverage moment much more so than if he comes up with one out. 

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Just Regular Hangout Grand Counsel

Just Regular

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From a Win today standpoint, IMO it was clearly wrong to let Kremer start the 6th.

Some of that is our anemic offense making it only a 2-1 game.   The irritating part of the beginning yesterday was being unable to sustain good at-bats against Pivetta and his scattershot.    He's hard to hit sure, and the 1st was a promising beginning, but he is not someone who should be having 10 pitch innings as he got close to a few times.   But that's just who the lineup is as a group while it is less than half there.

Young SP's with a back of rotation profile - it's nicer if their chances to show you they are growing into anyone you want to use Third Time Through can be the occasional 4-1 or 5-1 scores we so rarely have.   I don't feel Kremer has grown beyond Five and Dive yet, so if it is 2-1 and top of order Top of 6th, that seems pretty easy except for Development being the priority over Win Probability yesterday.

Gold Star for getting 15 outs in 18 Batters Faced, and let's not ruin it.

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Redskins Rick Hangout Grand Counsel

Redskins Rick

Posted
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3 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think they are already trying to get the leadoff guy out.

reminds me of the story Glen Brenner (Old DC Sports Dude, deceased, ex pitcher).

He said he was down at AAA, pitching and control was always an issue with his skillset. Anyway, he walks the first 3 batters.

Manager comes out and says, "Just throw Strikes".

Glen said something about dang it, is that all I have to do, why didnt you come out here sooner, and kept me from loading the bases. But, you know what. If I could throw strikes, I would be up at the big club and not listening to your sorry ass.

He said, he did get a suspension for that outburst and he deserved it.

He said, people under estimate how pitching is more mental than anything at times.

 

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OriolesMagic83 Hangout Grand Counsel

OriolesMagic83

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22 hours ago, bpilktree said:

Kramer had been pitching good so no need to pull him to start the 6th.  We also had a short pen after the game last night.  You have to try and get some innings from starters and they need to learn to pitch more then 4 or 5 inning before they come out.  

Lopez is just a 4 inning starter/reliever.  I remember when Rodrigo Lopez pitched for the O's and was a dominant long reliever.  He would just shut the other team down for 3 or 4 innings.  The O's kept trying to use him as a starter, where he was mediocre.  I guess ideally Lopez would move to long reliever when the O's have another pitcher who can actually start w/o imploding by the 4th inning. 

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

Posted
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6 hours ago, Moshagge3 said:

Making Kremer learn how to get through the later innings is something that would have made sense ten years ago, but I wonder if it's true anymore. If Dean Kremer is what we think, basically a guy whose upside is like a fourth starter, is he going to be routinely asked to go deep into games, barring rule changes concerning the number of pitchers on the roster? The Rays are the team a lot of us want to emulate, and I don't think Team Kevin Cash would hesitate to pull a guy after five strong innings if the top of the order for a dangerous offense was due up in the sixth. Shane McLanahan has been pulled after four innings in each of his starts this year.

Kremer did go 6 innings in his last outing, so I guess Hyde was hoping he could push that far again.   I didn’t watch the game, but I see that the 5th inning featured two fly outs, a line out and a double, so I’d say there were some warning signs that Kremer should be on a short leash.  

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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52 minutes ago, Beysbol said:

I think they gave him a day off or two because he pitched a complete game. In my opinion he should start, but whatever. 

They are sticking with a five man rotation and not skipping a spot when they have an off day.   Means is on pace for 217 innings if he makes all his starts on that schedule.   No reason at all to throw extra starts at him.  

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