Kyle Bradish 2021

[Ruzious]

11 hours ago, Lurker said:

I have it on good authority that he has been experimenting with a different grip for his change up. I really like how his slider is developing. It has the horizontal movement that you expect, but also some drop due to his delivery.

Hopefully that different grip won't be a giveaway that he's not throwing a fastball.    

[Tony-OH]

3 hours ago, Ruzious said:

Hopefully that different grip won't be a giveaway that he's not throwing a fastball.    

Never heard of batters picking up grips unless the pitcher is tipping it pre pitch with glove movement, but release points can be giveaways to good hitters.

[Sports Guy]

Yea, it’s the arm action that matters, not the grip.

[Ruzious]

Here's an interesting article on pitch tipping:  How do Pitchers “tip” their pitches to opposing hitters? at Nationals Arm Race

The 6th and 7th examples they give do involve the grip.  Here's an exerpt regarding a change-up:

1. Quote

   Pitch Grip Visibility: Mike Mussina found out from a teammate (Jorge Posada) during spring training one year that his unique change-up grip telegraphed the pitch to opposing hitters.  Posada watched him pitch and called out every pitch in what must have been a rather disheartening bullpen session.  He made a slight adjustment with his finger positioning and eliminated the tell.  This problem is somewhat related to a pitcher’s overall ability to “hide the ball” during his wind-up; if you’re an over-the-top thrower and you throw a pitch that shows a lot of the ball … batters can see it.  Knuckleballers especially are plagued by this, but they don’t much care since everyone knows what pitch is coming anyway.

   Here's another:

2. Quote

   Pitch Gripping in the Glove: If a pitcher throws an unconventional pitch that takes a moment to get a grip on, a batter can pickup on different timings or different mannerisms and get a read on the pitch.  I’ve noticed this with pitchers who throw specifically the split-fingered fastball, one of the more difficult pitches to properly grip.  I once watched a guy on the hill who would pre-jam the ball in-between his fingers as he took the sign; it became pretty easy to know what was coming because if he did NOT fiddle with his glove you knew it was a splitter.  Some pitchers have to look down at their grip to get it right after accepting the call; can you glean anything from this fiddling in the glove?

 

 

[Tony-OH]

1 minute ago, Ruzious said:

Here's an interesting article on pitch tipping:  How do Pitchers “tip” their pitches to opposing hitters? at Nationals Arm Race

The 6th and 7th examples they give do involve the grip.  Here's an exerpt regarding a change-up:

1. Here's another:

2.  

 

 

I've talked to a lot of hitters and I've never heard of any who can pick up a grip during a pitch. Perhaps Posada was special, but I would say the vast majority of hitters judge more off of release point and spin.

[Sports Guy]

If players picked up grips, why would anyone ever swing at a fork ball or a pitch like similar that almost never gets thrown for a strike but is hard to lay off of?

That fork ball grip is unmistakable, so if they can see and pick that up, they would know not to swing.

Or if there is a CU grip, they would know not swing as early as they do at a FB.

Stuff like that.

[LookinUp]

I think people are slightly missing the point the the discussion between arm action and grip. A tell is nothing but a difference that's visible/observable to the hitter. That can certainly be arm action. I'd argue that's most prevalent, but I can imagine a version of the grip, or cocking the wrist, being a tip. Hell, foot position, wind-up speed, a lot of things might be tells to someone who takes the time to observe. If you can see more or less of the ball, that's probably how you'd observe a different grip. I could certainly believe someone could see the difference between a palm ball and a 4-seam fastball by the grip.

The first tell I ever picked up on was a face a kid made when he was throwing off speed. 

[Ruzious]

1 hour ago, LookinUp said:

I think people are slightly missing the point the the discussion between arm action and grip. A tell is nothing but a difference that's visible/observable to the hitter. That can certainly be arm action. I'd argue that's most prevalent, but I can imagine a version of the grip, or cocking the wrist, being a tip. Hell, foot position, wind-up speed, a lot of things might be tells to someone who takes the time to observe. If you can see more or less of the ball, that's probably how you'd observe a different grip. I could certainly believe someone could see the difference between a palm ball and a 4-seam fastball by the grip.

The first tell I ever picked up on was a face a kid made when he was throwing off speed. 

I don't know, but that makes complete sense to me.  With all the dollars involved, you find ANYTHING that will give you a competitive advantage.  Obviously not everyone is going to be able to pick up every little tick or telltale sign - just the ones that are particularly adept at it.  But if you do something that's obvious, that's gonna quickly get picked up by more than the occasional player. 

[LookinUp]

3 hours ago, Ruzious said:

I don't know, but that makes complete sense to me.  With all the dollars involved, you find ANYTHING that will give you a competitive advantage.  Obviously not everyone is going to be able to pick up every little tick or telltale sign - just the ones that are particularly adept at it.  But if you do something that's obvious, that's gonna quickly get picked up by more than the occasional player. 

I'm sure advance scouts are focused on picking up any quirk from a pitcher, catcher, coach, etc. My son plays 11u and other parents were going out of their way to steal our signs and holler out to the kids. They weren't even that easy to steal, but that was their focus.

Any human action that's repeated over and over can be decoded by people with time, video and inclination. Some are just much harder to identify in real time than others.

[Lurker]

On 6/8/2021 at 2:57 AM, Ruzious said:

Hopefully that different grip won't be a giveaway that he's not throwing a fastball.    

I don't know anything about that.

My post was really about how (in this case) pitchers at this level are always testing new ways to do things and working to improve their craft. They get input from the coaching staff and other seasoned pitchers and often experiment with those things during games in order to determine the result.

Everyone wants to win, but ultimately, the minor leagues are about player development and pushing these athletes physically and mentally to see if they can achieve major league status.

Cheers!

[Frobby]

Teddy Ballgame: If you had to pick one outcome for the O’s Kyle Bradish in MLB; mid-rotation, backend rotation, bullpen?

:46	Eric A Longenhagen: Looking more like a five-and-dive starter type w/ mid-rotation shot.   https://blogs.fangraphs.com/eric-longenhagen-chat-6-11-21/

[Sports Guy]

5 IP, 3 H, 1 R, 3 BB, 10 Ks

63% str%

He is currently our 3rd best pitching prospect.

[bpilktree]

6 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

5 IP, 3 H, 1 R, 3 BB, 10 Ks

63% str%

He is currently our 3rd best pitching prospect.

As poor as the other upper level guys have pitched he is going to get his chance to pitch at Baltimore this season if he keeps it up.

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, bpilktree said:

As poor as the other upper level guys have pitched he is going to get his chance to pitch at Baltimore this season if he keeps it up.

He absolutely should.  Again, another guy who isn’t exactly young and who you don’t worry about gaming service time for.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

He absolutely should.  Again, another guy who isn’t exactly young and who you don’t worry about gaming service time for.

I’ll be down for it.   But I think it’d be best if he could get another 5ish starts in AAA first.   Maybe come up after we trade Harvey for some other team’s top prospect.