Rule 5 list

[Aristotelian]

8 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Grenier isn’t a savior. Explain to me how in the heck that a team that hasn’t had a SS in years, now has one ready for AAA next year, and we’re going to risk losing him?  By all reports he’d be able to play a respectable and steady SS. Forget the bat, we haven’t even had that except for the stop gaps we’ve signed. 
 

Bottomline is that you keep Grenier over some of the relievers. Always go with keeping the potential everyday player. Especially at a premium position. 

I'd be happy to keep him if we can, sure. I would not want to lose Bautista. I could see keeping Grenier over some of the other reliever types.

[RZNJ]

13 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Grenier isn’t a savior. Explain to me how in the heck that a team that hasn’t had a SS in years, now has one ready for AAA next year, and we’re going to risk losing him?  By all reports he’d be able to play a respectable and steady SS. Forget the bat, we haven’t even had that except for the stop gaps we’ve signed. 
 

Bottomline is that you keep Grenier over some of the relievers. Always go with keeping the potential everyday player. Especially at a premium position. 

Assuming every position prospect is a potential everyday player, would have to be the definition you are using.   How does a 24 year old in AA with a .700 OPS who strikes out in about 30% of his PA's qualify as potental  everyday ML player.     The days of Eddie Brinkman and Mark Belanger are long gone.    I would protect a Felix Bautista over Grenier 7 days a week.    

[Sports Guy]

Guys that are almost definitely gone from the 40 man by the time the offseason gets going:

Abad, Barreda, Wade, Watkins, M Harvey, Martin, Knight and Gutierrez.

Guys they could easily cut:

Greene, Lakins, Severino and/or Wynns

Guys you can cut if you have better options and need the space:

Stewart, Burdi, Diplan, Mattson,  Nevin and Bannon

Then you have Hunter Harvey and Diaz.  2 players you really shouldn’t cut but they can’t stay healthy.  They would be the last 2 guys I would look to replace.

But there are 18 guys ahead of them and unless you make a ton of moves this offseason, they likely aren’t in danger.

Guys who I think have played themselves off the bubble as of right now are Chris Ellis, Jorge Lopez and Mateo.  They are, again as of right now, likely on the ML roster to start 2022. 

[wildcard]

18 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Guys that are almost definitely gone from the 40 man by the time the offseason gets going:

Abad, Barreda, Wade, Watkins, M Harvey, Martin, Knight and Gutierrez.

Guys they could easily cut:

Greene, Lakins, Severino and/or Wynns

Guys you can cut if you have better options and need the space:

Stewart, Burdi, Diplan, Mattson,  Nevin and Bannon

Then you have Hunter Harvey and Diaz.  2 players you really shouldn’t cut but they can’t stay healthy.  They would be the last 2 guys I would look to replace.

But there are 18 guys ahead of them and unless you make a ton of moves this offseason, they likely aren’t in danger.

Guys who I think have played themselves off the bubble as of right now are Chris Ellis, Jorge Lopez and Mateo.  They are, again as of right now, likely on the ML roster to start 2022. 

I'm not sure about Ellis.  Could go either way.

[Sports Guy]

6 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I'm not sure about Ellis.  Could go either way.

He’s clearly in it right now but that could rapidly change.  But he has shown the ability to eat innings and keep you in games.  That is valuable in the pen.  
 

Whether or not it continues remains to be seen.  
 

I don’t disagree that he could be a dime a dozen arm that you can easily replace.  Just saying that as of right now, he’s not on the list of guys you definitely remove and he is showing that he can be part of the pen to start 2022.

[Aristotelian]

48 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Guys that are almost definitely gone from the 40 man by the time the offseason gets going:

Abad, Barreda, Wade, Watkins, M Harvey, Martin, Knight and Gutierrez.

Guys they could easily cut:

Greene, Lakins, Severino and/or Wynns

Guys you can cut if you have better options and need the space:

Stewart, Burdi, Diplan, Mattson,  Nevin and Bannon

Then you have Hunter Harvey and Diaz.  2 players you really shouldn’t cut but they can’t stay healthy.  They would be the last 2 guys I would look to replace.

But there are 18 guys ahead of them and unless you make a ton of moves this offseason, they likely aren’t in danger.

Guys who I think have played themselves off the bubble as of right now are Chris Ellis, Jorge Lopez and Mateo.  They are, again as of right now, likely on the ML roster to start 2022. 

Good summary SG. 

[jabba72]

21 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

He’s clearly in it right now but that could rapidly change.  But he has shown the ability to eat innings and keep you in games.  That is valuable in the pen.  
 

Whether or not it continues remains to be seen.  
 

I don’t disagree that he could be a dime a dozen arm that you can easily replace.  Just saying that as of right now, he’s not on the list of guys you definitely remove and he is showing that he can be part of the pen to start 2022.

I think Elias may have found something with Ellis. 6'5 throws mid 90s and had command of his FB and slider against the Yankees his last start. On this team thats a #3 starter. I think he's auditioning for a rotation spot as of right now. 

[wildcard]

Looks to me like Elias' job between now and late November is to trade any of Diaz, Bannon, Nevin, Martin, and Mattson for 18 to 20 year old players.   Maybe some of the lower ranked farm systems would have some interest.

[RZNJ]

14 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Looks to me like Elias' job between now and late November is to trade any of Diaz, Bannon, Nevin, Martin, and Mattson for 18 to 20 year old players.   Maybe some of the lower ranked farm systems would have some interest.

The only one of those guys who could possibly fetch a lottery ticket type prospect is Diaz and even that is doubtful.  You pick up guys like this on the waiver wire, 6 year minor league FA, etc.

[Sports Guy]

49 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Looks to me like Elias' job between now and late November is to trade any of Diaz, Bannon, Nevin, Martin, and Mattson for 18 to 20 year old players.   Maybe some of the lower ranked farm systems would have some interest.

Why?  Most, if not all, of those guys have zero trade value unless you are acquiring salary dumps or are 3rd or 4th pieces in a deal.

If you want to do something like that, so be it.  Otherwise, nothing is happening with them.  
 

Btw, I realize you are just trying to “kick the can down the road” and get guys that don’t need to be on the 40 man.

But this is also why you don’t just hold onto everyone.  Players suck, get hurt, lose value, etc..you gotta make moves and get rid of guys before that happens.

[wildcard]

49 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Why?  Most, if not all, of those guys have zero trade value...

You mean like Cashner for Elio Prado and Noelberth Romero

 Bleier for Isaac De Leon,

 and Milone for Greg Cullen and AJ Graffanino.

[Sports Guy]

36 minutes ago, wildcard said:

You mean like Cashner for Elio Prado and Noelberth Romero

 Bleier for Isaac De Leon,

 and Milone for Greg Cullen and AJ Graffanino.

Those guys had value.

[RZNJ]

1 hour ago, wildcard said:

You mean like Cashner for Elio Prado and Noelberth Romero

 Bleier for Isaac De Leon,

 and Milone for Greg Cullen and AJ Graffanino.

You're comparing 3 ML players who had track records of some success at the ML level.

 

You are comparing them to players who 1) have had ZERO success overall at the AAA level,  2) None who are particularly young for AAA  and 3)  Almost all will be available for FREE over the winter.

[wildcard]

2 hours ago, RZNJ said:

The only one of those guys who could possibly fetch a lottery ticket type prospect is Diaz and even that is doubtful.  You pick up guys like this on the waiver wire, 6 year minor league FA, etc.

So you are saying Elias will not try to trade them?

[wildcard]

43 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Those guys had value.

It was hard to figure what value Milone had. 

To the right system these  guys could have value:

Diaz could have value to a low ranked farm system because he was #39 ranked prospect by BA  in 2019.  If he getting healthy he could be a major leaguer. He will play all of 2022 at 25 year old.  He has two options left.

Bannon has a 258/354/463/817 in 4 minor league seasons.  He had a 317/344/649/893 in 90 PA at AAA in 2019.  He has two option left.

Nevin is a former 1st rounder who is still 24 and playing at AAA. He has a option left

Mattson may be harder to trade but he has 2.68 ERA and more strike out (61) than inning pitched (43.2)  at AA just one minor league season ago. He has two options left.

Martin will be 27 next year so that makes it hard to trade him but he plays a premier position at SS, was a 1st round draft choice and did well at AA before all the injuries. He has 2 options left