Clearing Roster space, October

[Jammer7]

5 hours ago, Aristotelian said:

I wouldn't do anything drastic with Hunter Harvey. I don't have super high expectations but he has been good when healthy and you never know when a pitcher with a history of injuries can turn things around. Bundy had elbow and shoulder injuries and came back to be an effective starting pitcher. Harvey has had a bunch of injuries but one was a total freak injury and they have all been different so we aren't talking about the same chronic problem. Definitely worth a 40 man spot IMO. 

Have you looked at his career stats? He is semi-healthy one of every three years. And that one year is on strict innings limits and rest in between. For me, it is about his preparation. I am obviously just speculating, as I have no inside knowledge of his situation. But the majority of his injuries in recent years are preventable with proper training today. It is certainly more than just bad luck. 

He has three seasons above 25 innings in his 9 year career. 87 innings in 2014, 32 innings in 2018 and 82 in 2019. In his three seasons in MLB, he has 23.2 innings. How long do we keep that non productive pitcher with promise? We need people that actually post up. He and Kremer went downhill about the time they worried more about their hair than their results between the lines. I really hate mullets!

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/harvehu01.shtml

[Aristotelian]

1 minute ago, Jammer7 said:

Have you looked at his career stats? He is semi-healthy one of every three years. And that one year is on strict innings limits and rest in between. For me, it is about his preparation. I am obviously just speculating, as I have no inside knowledge of his situation. But the majority of his injuries in recent years are preventable with proper training today. It is certainly more than just bad luck. 

He has three seasons above 25 innings in his 9 year career. 87 innings in 2014, 32 innings in 2018 and 82 in 2019. In his three seasons in MLB, he has 23.2 innings. How long do we keep that non productive pitcher with promise? We need people that actually post up. He and Kremer went downhill about the time they worried more about their hair than their results between the lines. I really hate mullets!

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/harvehu01.shtml

Agree with you about the mullett for sure. I think we are in the minority on that. If he is not putting forth effort in training and preparation I would be fine with getting rid of him, but have no basis for speculating that is the case. Bundy also had a similar track record until he turned a corner and became a productive MLB starter, albeit not at the level we had hoped. 

[Jammer7]

3 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Agree with you about the mullett for sure. I think we are in the minority on that. If he is not putting forth effort in training and preparation I would be fine with getting rid of him, but have no basis for speculating that is the case. Bundy also had a similar track record until he turned a corner and became a productive MLB starter, albeit not at the level we had hoped. 

Bundy sputtered for 2-3 years, not nine. IDK, I have personally had enough. Waging my campaign. “Dump the mullet!” I know he is a favorite of many here, but how long do we have to wait to do the inevitable? He is a favorite based on a glimpse of what he could be.

[SteveA]

33 minutes ago, Jammer7 said:

Have you looked at his career stats? He is semi-healthy one of every three years. And that one year is on strict innings limits and rest in between. For me, it is about his preparation. I am obviously just speculating, as I have no inside knowledge of his situation. But the majority of his injuries in recent years are preventable with proper training today. It is certainly more than just bad luck. 

He has three seasons above 25 innings in his 9 year career. 87 innings in 2014, 32 innings in 2018 and 82 in 2019. In his three seasons in MLB, he has 23.2 innings. How long do we keep that non productive pitcher with promise? We need people that actually post up. He and Kremer went downhill about the time they worried more about their hair than their results between the lines. I really hate mullets!

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/harvehu01.shtml

As long as he is making the minimum and we have many more guys that have less promise that we can cut.

[Jammer7]

15 minutes ago, SteveA said:

As long as he is making the minimum and we have many more guys that have less promise that we can cut.

That’s probably true, considering he will not be arbitration eligible at this rate until he’s 40.

[yark14]

I love the mullet. I say we keep him around as he keeps rocking it.  If he gets a haircut, dump him.
 

[Frobby]

53 minutes ago, Jammer7 said:

Bundy sputtered for 2-3 years, not nine. IDK, I have personally had enough. Waging my campaign. “Dump the mullet!” I know he is a favorite of many here, but how long do we have to wait to do the inevitable? He is a favorite based on a glimpse of what he could be.

I gave up on Harvey after last year.   He throws really hard but his command is mediocre and so are his secondary offerings.  Even if he were healthy I’m not sure he’d be a good back end reliever.   I’d say Mychal Givens is his ceiling, which is pretty decent, but maybe not good enough to live with the injury risk.   

[LookinUp]

3 hours ago, Jammer7 said:

For me, it is about his preparation. I am obviously just speculating, as I have no inside knowledge of his situation. But the majority of his injuries in recent years are preventable with proper training today.

If this is the case then you have to assess his mindset now, not before. Does he recognize that it's the case? Does he have a training regimen that is planned for the offseason? 

I'm not dumping real talent for mediocre guys. That said, there will be cuts and hand-wringing no matter who is cut. Happens every year, even on teams as bad as the O's. 

And someone we cut will turn into a decent major leaguer. Almost guaranteed to happen.

[Carllamy]

When it comes to Hunter Harvey, I think he one thing people need to remember is that I expected him to be a really big deal, so I spent $100 to buy his game used jersey from the Bowie Baysox, figuring the O's would have him do an autograph session one day and I could get him to sign it. We have to keep him around and give him as many chances as possible so that I can get some value out of my jersey purchase.

[UMDTerrapins]

Removed from 40 man (16) - Pedro Severino, Pat Valaika, Austin Wynns, Nick Ciuffo, Eric Hanhold, Thomas Eshelman, Travis Lakins Sr., Konner Wade, Fernando Abad, Matt Harvey, Spencer Watkins, Conner Greene, Zack Burdi, Marcos Diplan, Hunter Harvey, Chris Ellis

Fielders (16) - Trey Mancini, Jorge Mateo, Ramon Urias, Kelvin Gutierrez, Austin Hays, Cedric Mullins, Anthony Santander, Ryan Mountcastle, Ryan McKenna, DJ Stewart, Terrin Vavra, Robert Neustrom, Jahmai Jones, Yusniel Diaz, Rylan Bannon, Tyler Nevin

Pitchers (14) - John Means, Kyle Bradish, Bruce Zimmerman, DL Hall, Keegan Akin, Dean Kremer, Zac Lowther, Alex Wells, Tyler Wells, Cole Sulser, Tanner Scott, Mike Baumann, Dillon Tate, Jorge Lopez

Fringe (8) - Felix Bautista, Richie Martin, Kevin Smith, Paul Fry, Isaac Mattson, Joey Krehbiel, Brooks Kriske, Blaine Knight

Rule V Exposures (incomplete) - Patrick Dorrian, Nick Vespi, Cody Sedlock, Ofelky Peralta, Greg Cullen, Adam Hall, Cadyn Grenier, Logan Gillaspie, Adam Stauffer, Brett Cumberland, Mason McCoy, Lamar Sparks, Gray Fenter, Brenan Hanifee, Ignacio Feliz, Conner Loeprich, Cameron Bishop, Diogenes Almengo, Ryan Conroy, Tim Naughton

Deadline to set roster for Rule V - November 19th

 

UPDATES 

10/15/21 - Zack Burdi claimed by Arizona on waivers

10/15/21 - Travis Lakins Sr. outrighted to Norfolk

10/22/21 - Austin Wynns outrighted

10/23/21 - Thomas Eshelman, Konner Wade, Pat Valaika outrighted

11/3/21 - Matt Harvey and Fernando Abad declared free agency

11/3/21 - Pedro Severino, Conner Greene, Marcos Diplan removed from 40 man

11/3/21 - Eric Hanhold claimed by Pirates on waivers

11/5/21 - Hunter Harvey claimed by San Francisco on waivers

11/5/21 - Chris Ellis, Spenser Watkins, Nick Ciuffo removed from 40 man

[UMDTerrapins]

One thing I can't get past, is that if you extend Mancini, you end up needing to bench either Mancini or Mountcastle when Rutschman isn't catching in order to keep Adley's bat in the lineup. When I think of Pat Gillick rosters (back when I idolized him), this isn't the kind of dynamic he would have deliberately pursued. If I'm Elias and I can make some kind of package like Mancini, Santander, Scott, that brings back something that fits into the long term picture, I'd be motivated for a number of additional reasons (payroll, roster construction, opportunity for Stowers). 

[HowAboutThat]

38 minutes ago, UMDTerrapins said:

For the pre-Rule V 40 man roster, here's what I've got (in pencil):

Removed from 40 man - Pedro Severino, Pat Valaika, Rylan Bannon, Tyler Nevin, Richie Martin, Austin Wynns, Nick Ciuffo, Eric Hanhold, Thomas Eshelman, Travis Lakins Sr., Konner Wade, Fernando Abad, Matt Harvey, Spencer Watkins, Conner Greene

Fielders (14) - Trey Mancini, Jorge Mateo, Ramon Urias, Kelvin Gutierrez, Austin Hays, Cedric Mullins, Anthony Santander, Ryan Mountcastle, Ryan McKenna, DJ Stewart, Terrin Vavra, Robert Neustrom, Jahmai Jones, Yusniel Diaz

Pitchers (18) - John Means, Chris Ellis, Kyle Bradish, Bruce Zimmerman, DL Hall, Keegan Akin, Dean Kremer, Zac Lowther, Alex Wells, Tyler Wells, Cole Sulser, Tanner Scott, Hunter Harvey, Mike Baumann, Dillon Tate, Jorge Lopez, Felix Bautista

Fringe (8) - Kevin Smith, Paul Fry, Marcos Diplan, Joey Krehbiel, Brooks Kriske, Zack Burdi, Blaine Knight, Isaac Mattson

So that's 40 players before you start making cuts from the "fringe"category. And of course, this leaves no room for a Rule V addition, and contains absolutely zero catchers. On one hand, I'm happy to see that we finally have some decisions to make that are a little uncomfortable. I think Elias would probably be happy if he could trade some guys like Stewart, Diaz, Jones, Scott, Harvey along with more attractive pieces like Mancini and/or Santander. Or for 18-22 year old prospects in small deals. That fringe category isn't going to wow anyone, but it's not a total wasteland either. That group has to be cut down. If we're adding another starter this winter, and a 3B upgrade, a couple of catchers, and a Rule V pick, we need to make some moves/cuts to make space. Will be interesting to see what happens between the end of the WS and November 19th. 

We’ve had a lot of discussion about Jones, but I still think he should go, and Stewart too. Fry goes. We can lose most of your fringe guys, but keep Smith and Diplan. I don’t think Scott is a contributor at all… too inconsistent. But he’s not going anywhere. Keep Ciuffo or Wynns, whoever is the better defender and damn the offense. That’s 5-7 guys opening up spots.

None of our fringe guys have the slightest bit of trade value. Who in Gods name wants Stewart, especially when it means putting him on their 40? 

[OriolesMagic83]

1 hour ago, Carllamy said:

When it comes to Hunter Harvey, I think he one thing people need to remember is that I expected him to be a really big deal, so I spent $100 to buy his game used jersey from the Bowie Baysox, figuring the O's would have him do an autograph session one day and I could get him to sign it. We have to keep him around and give him as many chances as possible so that I can get some value out of my jersey purchase.

Does it just say Harvey?  Maybe people will think it's a Matt Harvey jersey.

[wildcard]

4 hours ago, UMDTerrapins said:

For the pre-Rule V 40 man roster, here's what I've got (in pencil):

Removed from 40 man - Pedro Severino, Pat Valaika, Rylan Bannon, Tyler Nevin, Richie Martin, Austin Wynns, Nick Ciuffo, Eric Hanhold, Thomas Eshelman, Travis Lakins Sr., Konner Wade, Fernando Abad, Matt Harvey, Spencer Watkins, Conner Greene

Fielders (14) - Trey Mancini, Jorge Mateo, Ramon Urias, Kelvin Gutierrez, Austin Hays, Cedric Mullins, Anthony Santander, Ryan Mountcastle, Ryan McKenna, DJ Stewart, Terrin Vavra, Robert Neustrom, Jahmai Jones, Yusniel Diaz

Pitchers (18) - John Means, Chris Ellis, Kyle Bradish, Bruce Zimmerman, DL Hall, Keegan Akin, Dean Kremer, Zac Lowther, Alex Wells, Tyler Wells, Cole Sulser, Tanner Scott, Hunter Harvey, Mike Baumann, Dillon Tate, Jorge Lopez, Felix Bautista

Fringe (8) - Kevin Smith, Paul Fry, Marcos Diplan, Joey Krehbiel, Brooks Kriske, Zack Burdi, Blaine Knight, Isaac Mattson

So that's 40 players before you start making cuts from the "fringe"category. And of course, this leaves no room for a Rule V addition, and contains absolutely zero catchers. On one hand, I'm happy to see that we finally have some decisions to make that are a little uncomfortable. I think Elias would probably be happy if he could trade some guys like Stewart, Diaz, Jones, Scott, Harvey along with more attractive pieces like Mancini and/or Santander. Or for 18-22 year old prospects in small deals. That fringe category isn't going to wow anyone, but it's not a total wasteland either. That group has to be cut down. If we're adding another starter this winter, and a 3B upgrade, a couple of catchers, and a Rule V pick, we need to make some moves/cuts to make space. Will be interesting to see what happens between the end of the WS and November 19th. 

Very good post.  Thanks for typing it out.  Of the fringe players I only have the O's protecting Fry and Diplan.   I have 5 opening on the 40 man roster to add players that come off other rosters, Rule 5 guy(s) and free agents.

[wildcard]

4 hours ago, UMDTerrapins said:

One thing I can't get past, is that if you extend Mancini, you end up needing to bench either Mancini or Mountcastle when Rutschman isn't catching in order to keep Adley's bat in the lineup. When I think of Pat Gillick rosters (back when I idolized him), this isn't the kind of dynamic he would have deliberately pursued. If I'm Elias and I can make some kind of package like Mancini, Santander, Scott, that brings back something that fits into the long term picture, I'd be motivated for a number of additional reasons (payroll, roster construction, opportunity for Stowers). 

I think between Rutschman and Mancini there should be some rest days.  And with Stowers and Neustrom probably being promoted at some point there will be coverage for DH.   By July there is probably room for an outfielder or Trey to be traded depending on Hays and Santander's injuries.