Luis Hernandez

[MikeAD]

Hernadez actually has a better OPS than Huff. So if you replaced Huff at DH with Tejada you would be upgrading DH by 100 points and gaining on defense at SS with Hernandez.

You're assuming that Tejada plays just as well as DH. Baseball history has several players who had worse stats at DH than they had at their normal position. Not to mention what this does to his trade value, in case we trade him.

Lets not even bring up the excrutiatingly small sample size we have for Hernandez.

[El Gordo]

You're assuming that Tejada plays just as well as DH. Baseball history has several players who had worse stats at DH than they had at their normal position. Not to mention what this does to his trade value, in case we trade him.

Lets not even bring up the excrutiatingly small sample size we have for Hernandez.

Hernandez is a .600 OPS guy easy. I'm not sure Huff is ever going to be much more than that,he looks pretty confused on breaking balls IMO. Miggy is a great hitter, I have no doubt he would be fine at DH.

[Sports Guy]

Hernandez is a .600 OPS guy easy. I'm not sure Huff is ever going to be much more than that,he looks pretty confused on breaking balls IMO. Miggy is a great hitter, I have no doubt he would be fine at DH.

Easy huh? He had a sub 600 OPS in AA and AAA this year.

[MikeAD]

Easy huh? He had a sub 600 OPS in AA and AAA this year.

That doesn't matter SG, we are only allowed to look at small sample sizes. After tonight CPat is easily a first ballot hall of famer.

[Mashed Potatoes]

If we could compile a list of indisputably horrible players who performed well for 28 major league at bats, it would be infinite. Literally infinite.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Did you watch the game and see that great backhand play Hernandez made that not only took a run scoring hit away but turned an unbelievable double play?That one play very likely saved a big inning and broke the back of the Rays. That ball most likely either goes by Tejada or off his glove, a run scores and Tampa has runners at first and second with one out.

That means Bedard has to throw more pitches and the bullpen comes in earlier. Great defense has much more of an impact over the whole team than you wish to give credit for. I don't know if you ever played organized baseball but if you did you should know this.

Your stating my take is illogical makes no sense if you played the game or even watched what has been going on since Tejada has been replaced at short. The difference is astounding at the plays they are now making.

I saw that play live and nearly went in my pants. It was fantastic.

But I've seen Tejada make that play. MULTIPLE times. Every season.

You are now just ignoring basic baseball knowledge and observation.

[El Gordo]

Easy huh? He had a sub 600 OPS in AA and AAA this year.

His MiL OPS is .625. Nobody is saying he is a great hitter or as good as he is hitting now. But he looks much better at the plate than Bako, a career .600 OPS guy. The point is Tejada would be such an upgrade over Gibbons and Huff at DH that you might be able to afford the upgrade of Hernandez' defense at SS. How hard is that to grasp?

[BaltimoreTerp]

His MiL OPS is .625. Nobody is saying he is a great hitter or as good as he is hitting now. But he looks much better at the plate than Bako, a career .600 OPS guy. The point is Tejada would be such an upgrade over Gibbons and Huff at DH that you might be able to afford the upgrade of Hernandez' defense at SS. How hard is that to grasp?

1) You are eliminating Tejada's defense when he is a DH, which is part of his value.

So, you are making the trade-off THAT much worse.

2) The Bako comparison is invalid, since last time I checked Hernandez isn't a catcher. At least not the Hernandez WE'RE talking about

And, anyone that supports Hernandez despite his offense has no room to talk with Bako.

[cutfastball]

D'oh!!!!!!!!!

[El Gordo]

1) You are eliminating Tejada's defense when he is a DH, which is part of his value.

So, you are making the trade-off THAT much worse.

2) The Bako comparison is invalid, since last time I checked Hernandez isn't a catcher. At least not the Hernandez WE'RE talking about

And, anyone that supports Hernandez despite his offense has no room to talk with Bako.

If you're talking about trade value you might be making some sense. But in terms of offense I fail to see what difference it makes what position they play. Hernandez is 23, it is not unreasonable to think he might improve to the point where he is a .600+ OPS hitter, maybe better. Since Gibbons and Hufff are not much better, Tejada is a huge upgrade over them at DH. The difference might be enough to carry Hernadez' superior defense at SS. But more to the point if you can trade Tejada for a young LF who might be a .150 + OPS upgrade there, you could afford to carry Hernandez' defense at SS.

[DrungoHazewood]

His MiL OPS is .625. Nobody is saying he is a great hitter or as good as he is hitting now. But he looks much better at the plate than Bako, a career .600 OPS guy. The point is Tejada would be such an upgrade over Gibbons and Huff at DH that you might be able to afford the upgrade of Hernandez' defense at SS. How hard is that to grasp?

Paul Bako's career minor league OPS is .731, over 100 points better than Luis Hernandez. At the age of 24 Bako had already posted three minor league seasons with an OPS over .800.

Paul Bako is and was, unambiguously, a better hitter than Luis Hernandez.

Let's be clear - the argument being made in this thread is that a player who is 80% as good as Paul Bako as a hitter needs to play every day for the Baltimore Orioles. Let's get that out in the open, let's make it crystal clear for everyone.

[DrungoHazewood]

If you're talking about trade value you might be making some sense. But in terms of offense I fail to see what difference it makes what position they play. Hernandez is 23, it is not unreasonable to think he might improve to the point where he is a .600+ OPS hitter, maybe better. Since Gibbons and Hufff are not much better, Tejada is a huge upgrade over them at DH. The difference might be enough to carry Hernadez' superior defense at SS. But more to the point if you can trade Tejada for a young LF who might be a .150 + OPS upgrade there, you could afford to carry Hernandez' defense at SS.

There's a legitimate, if small, chance that Huff and/or Gibbons could return to a much higher level of production. A level at which they've both performed in the past.

Luis Hernandez has never done that, and almost certainly never will. Even weak-hitting major league middle infielders usually had better minor league records than Hernandez. Heck, even the much-maligned and completely inadequate Luis Lopez had a better hitting record through age 23 than Hernandez. So in order to gain a small defensive advantage, on the order of maybe 10 runs a year, you're virtually guaranteeing that the Orioles will give a lineup spot to a .450-.600 OPS player.

[Eli Eon]

Hernadez actually has a better OPS than Huff. So if you replaced Huff at DH with Tejada you would be upgrading DH by 100 points and gaining on defense at SS with Hernandez.

Yeah, but some want to continue to argue that I am advocating swapping Hernandez for Tejada which I am but only defensively, not offensively. There is going to be a negligble effect on offense with Tejada still hitting and Hernandez hitting instead of Gibbons, Peyton, or Huff, however it works out. Why some people won't open their eyes to thinking of it this way is beyond me. This team is playing the best baseball defensively and pitching-wise that I can recall in a long time.

The best thing to happen to this team was (sorry to have to say it) Tejada's injury. His suspect defense has been fully exposed for the world to see. I don't care who plays shortstop, Hernandez, Gomez, or Fahey, they are all better out there than Tejada and that means to me that Tejada has to be moved somewhere else or traded. He is not even as good as three guys who aren't good enough to start normally. His bat doesn't compensate enough for his defense at such a critical position.

End of story as far as I am concerned.

[sector7g]

OMG is this groundhog day? Have you guys even been to bed or have you been arguing over this all night?!

[DrungoHazewood]

This message is hidden because Eli Eon is on your ignore list.

(Huge sigh of relief) :002_scool: