Luis Hernandez

[TGO]

Uh, show me the 10 DH's you are talking about that during Tejada's career have had better numbers in BA, RBI's and HR's, which is the big three in my book. I can think of a handful but where are you getting TEN? I think you are pulling this number out of thin air!

Oh, I get it. You're Joe Morgan. Hi Joe!

[Mackus]

I strongly disagree.

The DH's on this team have I believe been below average in power, average and rbi's. Tejada would elevate the numbers at the DH spot, just as a better fielding shortstop would improve the defense and pitching.

You constantly seem to confuse the fact that since our LF and DH are terrible that every LF and DH is terrible. Its easy to find a DH who can hit as well as Tejada. Our front office is just incapable of succeeding at even the most menial tasks.

That doesn't mean that we should sacrifice a major strength in order to bump up a major weakness to a league average spot.

[Leitch]

Uh, show me the 10 DH's you are talking about that during Tejada's career have had better numbers in BA, RBI's and HR's, which is the big three in my book. I can think of a handful but where are you getting TEN? I think you are pulling this number out of thin air!

I did pull that number out of thin air. There are only 11 DH's this year with more than 200 PAs and of the ones that are above replacement level, 5 of them are better hitters than Tejada.

It doesn't hurt my point a tiny bit that moving Tejada to a left-spectrum position turns him from Miguel Tejada, MVP, to Kevin Millar, average-to-below ballplayer.

[bgfield]

You may be right but I don't see it that way. To me Tejada's big value is his bat period. You could play him anywhere or DH him and that is his value, not his defense, which is average to good.

The point is, for a DH or an OFer, Tejada's numbers aren't all that good. For a shortstop, his numbers are good. How many guys can provide good defense at shortstop while providing very good numbers with the bat? Not many. THAT is where Tejada's value comes from. By moving him from short you're making other teams view him as a so-so DH, whereas we should be marketing him as an elite shortstop.

[Eli Eon]

I did pull that number out of thin air. There are only 11 DH's this year with more than 200 PAs and of the ones that are above replacement level, 5 of them are better hitters than Tejada.

It doesn't hurt my point a tiny bit that moving Tejada to a left-spectrum position turns him from Miguel Tejada, MVP, to Kevin Millar, average-to-below ballplayer.

Your post defies logic because the only reason Tejada is valued anyway is his hitting which is the same no matter where you field him or as a DH. His defense is of little value when it is easily noted there are three guys on his own team that play the position better. Again, I see no loss to the ORIOLES by retaining Tejada's bat at third or fourth no matter whether he DH's or plays the outfield or even first base. How in God's name does he now lower his hitting to that of Kevin Millar? Please explain that one?

[Eli Eon]

The point is, for a DH or an OFer, Tejada's numbers aren't all that good. For a shortstop, his numbers are good. How many guys can provide good defense at shortstop while providing very good numbers with the bat? Not many. THAT is where Tejada's value comes from. By moving him from short you're making other teams view him as a so-so DH, whereas we should be marketing him as an elite shortstop.

Then you are marketing Tejada as something he clearly is not because his defense is not elite, not even close when three guys on his own team are clearly superior.

[Mackus]

Your post defies logic because the only reason Tejada is valued anyway is his hitting which is the same no matter where you field him or as a DH. His defense is of little value when it is easily noted there are three guys on his own team that play the position better. Again, I see no loss to the ORIOLES by retaining Tejada's bat at third or fourth no matter whether he DH's or plays the outfield or even first base. How in God's name does he now lower his hitting to that of Kevin Millar? Please explain that one?

Again, your notion that Tejada is not good enough of a SS to play there is laughable.

He can play the position. He's not great. He's about average. But combined with his bat, which is great for the position, and he's got a lot of value and worth many more runs and wins to the team than an elite fielding SS with a .625 OPS.

And you obviously lower the Orioles total run production by moving Tejada to DH because Luis Hernandez isn't even remotely close to as good of a hitter as even our crappy DHs are, yet alone how good a DH should be.

[BRobinsonfan]

He is not even as good as three guys who aren't good enough to start normally. His bat doesn't compensate enough for his defense at such a critical position.

End of story as far as I am concerned.

Wow!.... just wow!

[bgfield]

Then you are marketing Tejada as something he clearly is not because his defense is not elite, not even close when three guys on his own team are clearly superior.

You misunderstand what I'm saying. He's not elite defensively, but he is anywhere from average to above average, while providing elite offensive numbers. Answer me this: How many shortstops can put up the numbers you get out of Tejada, offensively?

Now, right now he's only 10th in the league in OPS, but this is certainly a down year for Tejada. You know he's a guy who CAN hit 20-30 homers, drive in a hundred, and have an OPS around .900 (well, he was, it remains to be seen if he can continue to do that). THAT is what makes him an elite shortstop.

[TGO]

Then you are marketing Tejada as something he clearly is not because his defense is not elite, not even close when three guys on his own team are clearly superior.

We aren't trying to sell a fake drug to the elderly here. Who cares about the marketing? If other teams don't believe he's an elite SS then we'll get worse offers and we'll have to deal with it and go from there.

[Eli Eon]

Again, your notion that Tejada is not good enough of a SS to play there is laughable.

He can play the position. He's not great. He's about average. But combined with his bat, which is great for the position, and he's got a lot of value and worth many more runs and wins to the team than an elite fielding SS with a .625 OPS.

And you obviously lower the Orioles total run production by moving Tejada to DH because Luis Hernandez isn't even remotely close to as good of a hitter as even our crappy DHs are, yet alone how good a DH should be.

Yeah you lower the Orioles run production from whatever Jay Gibbons or Peyton produce as opposed to Hernandez or whatever gold glove type shortstop you put there. I get that, but you also still retain Tejada's bat so no offense is lost there plus you get the big plus of the added infield defense as at the key shortstop position. I will take that trade off any day on a team that has great pitching and a solid defense with a chance to be great.

[Eli Eon]

You misunderstand what I'm saying. He's not elite defensively, but he is anywhere from average to above average, while providing elite offensive numbers. Answer me this: How many shortstops can put up the numbers you get out of Tejada, offensively?

Now, right now he's only 10th in the league in OPS, but this is certainly a down year for Tejada. You know he's a guy who CAN hit 20-30 homers, drive in a hundred, and have an OPS around .900 (well, he was, it remains to be seen if he can continue to do that). THAT is what makes him an elite shortstop.

Your definition of an elite shortstop is different than mine. I want a gold glove guy first who hopefully can also hit fairly decent but anything he brings offensively is a bonus. Yours would seem to be a slugger whose fielding is pretty much irrelevant as long as it is average. To me you can get a slugger at less vital defensive positions on the team like the corner outfield or first base. I mean cmon, the Angels couild stick Vlad at shortstop and he would have the range of a turtle but still hit like Vlad, so would he be an "elite" shortstop? Under your definition apparently he would!

[bgfield]

Your definition of an elite shortstop is different than mine. I want a gold glove guy first who hopefully can also hit fairly decent. Yours would seem to be a slugger whose fielding is pretty much irrelevant as long as it is average. To me you can get a slugger at less vital defensive positions on the team like the corner outfield or first base.

Well that'd be all well and good if these were the days were every team fielded an all-glove no-bat shortstop and we didn't have to match up with them, but we do. Believe me - I'd LOVE to see a defensive marvel out at short while making up the runs elsewhere, but more than that, I want to see this team win. Leaving Luis Hernandez in the lineup - with our offense - does not help us win. And moving Tejada hurts his trade value, which means if we do trade him (which we should) we'll get less back for him.

You just don't move Miggy. There's no good reason to. If we had a 15-20 homer guy at every position, we could sacrifice offensive production out of shortstop. But we don't. We can't afford to have any more black holes in our lineup, and we can't afford to ruin Miggy's trade value by moving him away from short.

EDIT: And don't put words into my mouth. I didn't say anyone could play short. But Miggy isn't bad as a shortstop. He's, at worst, average. At best, he's pretty good. But apparently you want to field a bunch of AA players who can't hit but can look nifty in the field. That's great. I wish we'd put that team on the field just so you could finally see that you're wrong. You'd think that every single person in this thread disagreeing with you might lead up to that point, but apparently not. Time to go on ignore. See ya.

[BRobinsonfan]

Oh, I get it. You're Joe Morgan. Hi Joe!

Now that's funny!

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to TGO again.

[Eli Eon]

Well that'd be all well and good if these were the days were every team fielded an all-glove no-bat shortstop and we didn't have to match up with them, but we do. Believe me - I'd LOVE to see a defensive marvel out at short while making up the runs elsewhere, but more than that, I want to see this team win. Leaving Luis Hernandez in the lineup - with our offense - does not help us win. And moving Tejada hurts his trade value, which means if we do trade him (which we should) we'll get less back for him.

You just don't move Miggy. There's no good reason to. If we had a 15-20 homer guy at every position, we could sacrifice offensive production out of shortstop. But we don't. We can't afford to have any more black holes in our lineup, and we can't afford to ruin Miggy's trade value by moving him away from short.

EDIT: And don't put words into my mouth. I didn't say anyone could play short. But Miggy isn't bad as a shortstop. He's, at worst, average. At best, he's pretty good. But apparently you want to field a bunch of AA players who can't hit but can look nifty in the field. That's great. I wish we'd put that team on the field just so you could finally see that you're wrong. You'd think that every single person in this thread disagreeing with you might lead up to that point, but apparently not. Time to go on ignore. See ya.

We have had that team on the field and it is above 500 without Tejada's glove or bat. I think the team is playing better without him at short. So it is not proving me wrong but proving me right. While not the only reason it is playing better (Dave Trembley is doing a great job) the added defense has shown to be a big help IMO.