2021 Orioles #17 Prospect - Kyle Bradish - RHP

[Tony-OH]

https://www.orioleshangout.com/2021/11/11/17-kyle-bradish/

[interloper]

Fair! I'm looking forward to seeing how he looks this year. One point I'll make is that he might not get the chance to throw more than 80 pitches in a big league start anyway, unless he's really rolling, because Hyde tends to yank pitchers around the 3rd time through the order. So that whole thing about deteriorating stuff might not matter so much in his first year. 

Of bigger concern for me is the lack of changeup. We'll see, but for whatever reason I have high hopes for Bradish. 

[LookinUp]

Very fair write-up, Tony. Really great info re: holding velo, command concerns and lack of ability to execute the Ch and curve.

I think this guy's a fighter and that he'll be valuable in some capacity. He's close and we can always hope he gains better feel/command of the major league ball.

That said, I totally understand his placement here after reading the write-up.

[Frobby]

Really excellent breakdown of Bradish, so thanks for that.   I love the accompanying photo, which really illustrates the unorthodox delivery we’ve all heard about.  

[wildcard]

Whatever Bradish was doing in Sept he should try to bottle it.  I think he needs to start the season at AAA and see if he can maintain whatever that was.

[HowAboutThat]

I appreciate this breakdown, but what is the difference between this guy not being usable beyond 70 pitches or so, and Lopez, who almost always lost it after about 60-70 pitches? There were a couple exceptions but usually Lopez was toast by then.

I didn’t check, but was he still throwing hard in the late innings?

Edited November 11, 2021 by Philip

[LookinUp]

19 minutes ago, Philip said:

I appreciate this breakdown, but what is the difference between this guy not being usable beyond 70 pitches or so, and Lopez, who almost always lost it after about 60-70 pitches? There were a couple exceptions but usually Lopez was toast by then.

I didn’t check, but was he still throwing hard in the late innings?

Who's comparing Lopez and Bradish?

As an aside, we get into this annually, but the word ceiling means different things to different people. I don't want to put words into Tony's mouth, but I think he uses the word ceiling more as a reasonable ceiling, not as an absolute ceiling. Obviously if a pitcher develops an advanced feel for a change up or something that hasn't been seen before, he can outperform what's currently thought to be reasonable. 

So if a player's profile changes significantly, there's always a chance of outperforming what a ceiling is listed as here. 

[HowAboutThat]

7 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

Who's comparing Lopez and Bradish?

As an aside, we get into this annually, but the word ceiling means different things to different people. I don't want to put words into Tony's mouth, but I think he uses the word ceiling more as a reasonable ceiling, not as an absolute ceiling. Obviously if a pitcher develops an advanced feel for a change up or something that hasn't been seen before, he can outperform what's currently thought to be reasonable. 

So if a player's profile changes significantly, there's always a chance of outperforming what a ceiling is listed as here. 

Nobody was directly comparing the two, but Lopez seemed to show the same issue that Tony was mentioning as a limitation for Bradish, IE He loses effectiveness, in this case velocity, after about 70 pitches, which very much seemed to also be true of Lopez, though his loss of effectiveness might not have been velocity, as I said I didn’t check. He definitely lost effectiveness, though.

I have been pushing for Lopez as a piggyback starter for a long time, and I don’t see why Bradish couldn’t be the same. After all if the guy can give you 60 good pitches, that’s four good innings, and that’s meaningful

Edited November 11, 2021 by Philip
Typos

[LookinUp]

I guess I just don't get your point. What you're saying for Bradish/Lopez is well-within the parameters of Tony's write-up. 

[HowAboutThat]

2 hours ago, LookinUp said:

I guess I just don't get your point. What you're saying for Bradish/Lopez is well-within the parameters of Tony's write-up. 

My point is that Tony is suggesting that because of his effective pitch limit, That he’s probably best as a reliever.

I pointed out that Lopez appears to have a similar pitch limitation, although his issue might be some thing besides decreased velocity. And yet they kept using him as a starter, which implies that they might use Bradish as a starter despite that pitch limit.

I then restated My suggestion that piggyback starters, the first of whom goes four innings or so. is the best thing to do with these guys, and therefore, a 70 pitch limit is no impediment to Bradish being a starter.

[Frobby]

18 minutes ago, Philip said:

My point is that Tony is suggesting that because of his effective pitch limit, That he’s probably best as a reliever.

I pointed out that Lopez appears to have a similar pitch limitation, although his issue might be some thing besides decreased velocity. And yet they kept using him as a starter, which implies that they might use Bradish as a starter despite that pitch limit.

I then restated My suggestion that piggyback starters, the first of whom goes four innings or so. is the best thing to do with these guys, and therefore, a 70 pitch limit is no impediment to Bradish being a starter.

Lopez was used as a starter only because we had a terrible pitching staff. He’d never have been a starter on a decent team.   When Tony says Bradish is probably a reliever, he’s talking about what he’d be on a team that’s not awful.   

[sportsfan8703]

That’s why we need to target high end SP in a trade for Mullins. These young SP then can work in their bullpen roles that they are destined for. Then we don’t have to carry so many dead weight relief types on the 40 man. 

[Tony-OH]

6 hours ago, Philip said:

Nobody was directly comparing the two, but Lopez seemed to show the same issue that Tony was mentioning as a limitation for Bradish, IE He loses effectiveness, in this case velocity, after about 70 pitches, which very much seemed to also be true of Lopez, though his loss of effectiveness might not have been velocity, as I said I didn’t check. He definitely lost effectiveness, though.

I have been pushing for Lopez as a piggyback starter for a long time, and I don’t see why Bradish couldn’t be the same. After all if the guy can give you 60 good pitches, that’s four good innings, and that’s meaningful

Lopez is a reliever for me as well and should have been last year.

[jamalshw]

I hope we see Bradish get a chance to start this year and spend most of the season in the rotation. I understand that he may eventually find his place in the bullpen, but for now, I think there's an opportunity for him. Once Rodriguez and Hall come up (and perhaps a free agent signing in 2023--unless we get surprised by a multi-year signing this offseason), we will need to weed out the long-term starters and the relievers. Lets see who of the Bradish, Lowther, Baumann trio can stick in the rotation and who can't. Hopefully, we can get a #4/5 starter out of at least one of them. 

[Tony-OH]

4 minutes ago, jamalshw said:

I hope we see Bradish get a chance to start this year and spend most of the season in the rotation. I understand that he may eventually find his place in the bullpen, but for now, I think there's an opportunity for him. Once Rodriguez and Hall come up (and perhaps a free agent signing in 2023--unless we get surprised by a multi-year signing this offseason), we will need to weed out the long-term starters and the relievers. Lets see who of the Bradish, Lowther, Baumann trio can stick in the rotation and who can't. Hopefully, we can get a #4/5 starter out of at least one of them. 

Despite my thought that he's best suited as a reliever, I too think he should be given a chance in the rotation next year. I believe all three of them come into camp with a chance to stick in the rotation, though out of all of them I think Baumann has the least chance to stick there and they may want to consider moving him to the pen next season.